Thinking about getting a Leaf - Questions

[RLewisCA]

Hi, I'm brand new to this board, but I'm thinking about getting a Leaf, and have been doing a lot of reading both here and elsewhere. Based on what I've read, I'm somewhat 'on the line' of whether a Leaf would end up being practical for me, so I wanted to get some opinions.

Here are some important facts to know about me:

1. I live in southern California. So, I'm thinking weather is not really much of a factor. We may get a few days over 100 where I live, but it's probably less than 10 a year. In summer, it's mostly around the 90 degree range where I am during August, but proabably in the mid to high 80's during July and September. Less than that the rest of the year. The coldest it ever really gets when I'm driving is probably 45 or 50.

2. My commute is 50 miles round trip. It is mostly highway, however because of traffic there is a mix of full-speed highway, stretches of 40-45 mph and a couple stretches of 5-10 mph. It takes me an average of 45 minutes each way, if that helps in terms of average speed. There is an approximately 500 foot elevation change spread over the 25 miles each way. It's a mix of up hill, downhill and level each way, but difference in elevation at origin and destination is about 500 feet.

3. I do not have a practical way to charge at destination. I will have a level 2 charger at home.

4. I do travel quite a bit, and LAX is 42 miles from home. I will be using a parking service that will charge at destination when I do go to the airport (Wally Park).

5. I occasionally visit friends in Hollywood, which is 33 miles each way from home. I would like to be able to do the round trip on one charge, but I'm uncertain if that's practical. I could charge at destination if need be, but if I could avoid it, it would be more convenient.

What I have described accounts for probably 80% of my driving. Another 10-15% is just in errands around town (no problems with mileage), and the remaining 5-10% would be other trips to visit other friends/family.

I am married and would be keeping an ICE vehicle which would primarily be driven by my wife.

Thoughts? I think I would be a good candidate for the Leaf, and the thought of going completely electric is really attractive to me. I'm just a bit on the fence about whether it's really practical for me. Based on what I've told you, am I fooling myself, or will is probably work out for me?

 

[Reddy]

Excellent post with all the necessary required info for forum members to evaluate. Thanks!

Lease one and you're done! You're approved! :lol:

 

[TonyWilliams]

2. My commute is 50 miles round trip...
4. I do travel quite a bit, and LAX is 42 miles from home. I will be using a parking service that will charge at destination when I do go to the airport (Wally Park)... 5. I occasionally visit friends in Hollywood, which is 33 miles each way from home.
...will is probably work out for me?

Ya, you're an excellent candidate for the LEAF. You might want to steal some electrons from your Hollywood friends for freeway driving as the battery degrades in a few years. Wally Park is installing charge stations right now, so that's easy. 50 round trip in SoCal should be very doable.

Good luck.

 

[RonDawg]

Hello from a fellow Angeleno and recent Leaf lessee.

My guess is that you live in the Santa Clarita Valley, based on the mileages you posted. If so, climbing Newhall Pass is going to cut into your range, and the fact that you mention elevation at all seems to indicate you've got a concern about that. I've done Pasadena-Santa Clarita-Burbank before charging (mostly because the City of Burbank has several ChargePoint stations downtown so I took advantage of that) but if I stayed off the freeway and onto surface streets like the Old Road, San Fernando Road, and Colorado Blvd I could have made it on a single charge, albeit with probably a Low Battery Warning if not VLBW.

Another Santa Claritan had posted a few weeks back asking if his commute to the Burbank/Glendale border would work. Yes it would work, but as the car's battery ages and starts to degrade workplace charging is going to become more of a necessity. I think in the end he opted to get a used Prius for that reason.

While temps in the SCV are not as extreme as in Arizona (or for that matter, the Antelope Valley), it's still regularly warm enough where battery degradation due to heat will be somewhat of a factor. So keep in mind that to preserve battery range you should only be charging to 80%, and if you do charge to 100% to make sure to drive the car relatively soon after it is fully charged.

If I still haven't scared you off from getting a Leaf I highly recommend getting one with the Quick Charge port. On the 2013's, it is a $1300 option (which also includes the 6.6 kW onboard charger for faster 240 volt charging and a backup camera) on the S and SV, and standard on the top of the line SL. If you opt to get a used one, on the 2012's it was standard on the SL's and not available at all on the SV. For 2011 I believe it was an option which had to be factory-installed. Note the 6.6kW charger is not available on 2011/2012 Leafs as it was just introduced for 2013.

The QC port will make the car a lot more flexible to use. Currently, there are no QC ports between the SCV and downtown LA. However, Nissan of Mission Hills is expected to get one later this year. There is a QC port just south of downtown, and another at Mitsubishi's HQ in Cypress, so the sights of "The O.C." is a reasonable reach for you.

 

[tstaton]

As the more experienced folks say, I think you are just right for a Leaf. One additional warning: We have had our 2013 for almost a month - I made the mistake of letting my wife drive it - I WANT IT BACK!! - What a great car. Best to you

 

[RLewisCA]

Hello from a fellow Angeleno and recent Leaf lessee.

My guess is that you live in the Santa Clarita Valley, based on the mileages you posted.

That's a reasonable guess, but I actually live in the eastern SGV - right near the 210/57 intersection (San Dimas). So, I don't have to worry about the Newhall pass. I also don't live up in the foothills, so it's relatively flat where I am. There's really only one minor hill on my commute - which is to Anaheim by Angel Stadium. So, my commute is really 100% on the 57.

It's also not quite as hot here as in the SCV, so hopefully not quite as much of a factor for battery degradation where I am.

Thanks for the tip on the QC port. It's actually one of the primary reasons I was going to get the SL version (that, and the leather seats).

I'm test driving tomorrow, and I know the dealer has the trim/color combo I want in stock, so it's going to be hard not to walk out of the dealer with a new Leaf tomorrow!

 

[LEAFfan]

Excellent post with all the necessary required info for forum members to evaluate. Thanks!

Lease one and you're done! You're approved! :lol:

+1! You will love it!

 

[RLewisCA]

Thanks very much to all of you for providing some very good information to help me decide.

Another quick couple of questions -

Does the new charger in the 2013 models make Level 1 charging any faster? I know it is supposed to cut level 2 charging down to about 4 hours, but I wasn't sure if it helped at all with level 1. The manual (which I've already quickly read through as part of my research) states that Level 1 takes around 21 hours - but I didn't know if that figure might be a carryover from previous manuals, as it also stated that Level 2 takes around 8.

I have been trying to figure out the differences between 240v plugs, and haven't had much success with Google. I have a spare 240v receptacle already installed in my house (I have a gas dryer, but the house was already wired for electric), and the receptable seems to have two main flat pins that are at an angle to each other, and one large round pin which I assume is the ground. I don't know what 'type' of plug this is, or whether it is the same plug as the 'hang on the wall' semi-portable level 2 EVSE's that are available for around $1000. If it's not, do I have to have the plug changed, or is there a plug adapter I can use with the level 2 EVSE?

Thanks again for everyone's help.

 

[RonDawg]

That's a reasonable guess, but I actually live in the eastern SGV - right near the 210/57 intersection (San Dimas). So, I don't have to worry about the Newhall pass. I also don't live up in the foothills, so it's relatively flat where I am. There's really only one minor hill on my commute - which is to Anaheim by Angel Stadium. So, my commute is really 100% on the 57.

In that case your commute through Brea Canyon should not be a problem at all. But for peace of mind, PlugShare shows numerous public charging stations along the 57 corridor. There is also a QC station in Diamond Bar (South Coast AQMD).

 

[RonDawg]

I have been trying to figure out the differences between 240v plugs, and haven't had much success with Google. I have a spare 240v receptacle already installed in my house (I have a gas dryer, but the house was already wired for electric), and the receptable seems to have two main flat pins that are at an angle to each other, and one large round pin which I assume is the ground. I don't know what 'type' of plug this is, or whether it is the same plug as the 'hang on the wall' semi-portable level 2 EVSE's that are available for around $1000. If it's not, do I have to have the plug changed, or is there a plug adapter I can use with the level 2 EVSE?

You're a perfect candidate for the EVSE Upgrade: http://evseupgrade.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Just send in your factory EVSE (the part people mistakenly call the "charger") and it will be upgraded to accept 240 volts directly; no need to install a dedicated charging station. It comes with adapters to let you use it on 120 volt outlets as well for those times you need to charge at that voltage. I believe it uses a different plug than what you dryer comes with, but you can either change out the outlet, or use an adapter. You can buy a cord that has a bare wire end specifically to turn it into an adapter.

Here's a chart with the various NEMA type plugs: http://www.nooutage.com/nema_configurations.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[RLewisCA]

The only concern I had about the EVSE upgrade is that I will be leasing my car, and I assumed I would need to turn in the EVSE at the end of the lease in the same condition that I bought it. So, by modifying it, I might be setting myself up to have to purchase a new one at lease end. Would that not be the case? It was the only reason I was l looking at buying one of the semi-portable level 2 EVSE's either at Lowes or on Amazon.

 

[RonDawg]

The only concern I had about the EVSE upgrade is that I will be leasing my car, and I assumed I would need to turn in the EVSE at the end of the lease in the same condition that I bought it. So, by modifying it, I might be setting myself up to have to purchase a new one at lease end. Would that not be the case? It was the only reason I was l looking at buying one of the semi-portable level 2 EVSE's either at Lowes or on Amazon.

That's a legitimate concern. This is from EVSEUpgrade's website:

I am leasing my LEAF, and am worried I might be penalized if I turn my car in with the upgraded EVSE.

At the end of your lease we will be happy to downgrade your unit for free. (you cover the shipping) I'm sure any other LEAF owner with an original unit would also be happy to swap you as well, and maybe you can even make some cash on it! In a pinch, you could simply cut the molded L6-20 connector off and install a standard screw-on plug just like the EVSE is originally shipped with, which you can purchase at any hardware store. Another option is to simply buy an additional already upgraded unit from us and keep your original unit in the trunk.

 

[Deleted member 3147]

Does the new charger in the 2013 models make Level 1 charging any faster?

No. Level 1 charging is still limited to 12 amps from the wall. This is due to the fact that the standard 120V wall outlet is 15 amps and must be degraded 25% for "continuous" use.

 

[planet4ever]

I have been trying to figure out the differences between 240v plugs, and haven't had much success with Google. I have a spare 240v receptacle already installed in my house (I have a gas dryer, but the house was already wired for electric), and the receptable seems to have two main flat pins that are at an angle to each other, and one large round pin which I assume is the ground. I don't know what 'type' of plug this is, or whether it is the same plug as the 'hang on the wall' semi-portable level 2 EVSE's that are available for around $1000. If it's not, do I have to have the plug changed, or is there a plug adapter I can use with the level 2 EVSE?

The link RonDawg provided doesn't list all NEMA receptacles. Here is a more complete one for non-locking plugs and outlets:
http://www.stayonline.com/reference-nema-straight-blade.aspx
From your description I'm guessing that your dryer outlet is a NEMA 10-30.

I am an enthusiastic advocate of EVSEupgrade. They will sell you a "pigtail" for $20 that you can add a plug to (about $20 at Home Depot) that matches your dryer outlet. Or, as RonDawg said, you can easily change your outlet to an L6-20 which will match the plug on the upgraded EVSE. Changing the outlet is the cleaner, and cheaper, solution, but you might want the adapter if you ever want to plug into someone else's dryer outlet. Also, if you file the ground blade a bit, that same 10-30 plug will fit a standard 50A/240v RV campground outlet.

Ray

Edit: I was confused. The 240v RV outlet is a 14-50, not a 10-50. Campgrounds do all have 10-30 outlets, but those are 120v, i.e. "trickle charge".

 

[RLewisCA]

Thanks Ray. I believe you're right - 10-30 looks exactly like what I have. After having done some more reading, I have a couple more questions about the EVSE upgrade. Please keep in mind that I have very little electrical knowledge:

1. There was some discussion as to whether the 120v EVSE that comes with the 2013 Leaf will be able to be upgraded to full 20 amp. If it can't this will effect how fast the Leaf can be charged, is that correct?

2. Will the EVSE upgrade be capable of charging the Leaf in roughly 4 hours with the new charger in the 2013 Leaf, or is it limited to the slower 8 hours of standard level 2 charging?

Again, I've read for hours, but I'm still relatively new to all of this, so I appreciate the guidance.

 

[iamwjh]

I lease a 2012.
Purchased a brand new Panasonic L1 EVSE in original packaging, with case and straps, and documents, via Ebay. I got a deal!!
Sent that to EVSE Upgrade for their magic.
Will have a friend who is a certified electrician add an outlet in the garage - and only for material cost.
The electrical work is something I can do myself, but what-the-heck, have an expert do it. May cost me a favor or a package of adult beverages.
The benefit for me, with the lease, is that I can keep the OEM L1 EVSE in the trunk with my 10AWG extension cord for emergencies.
And, charge at L2 from the house.
At termination of my lease contract, I have an L2 that I can keep for my next EV, or perhaps pass on to a friend or potential Ebay buyer...

 

[planet4ever]

1. There was some discussion as to whether the 120v EVSE that comes with the 2013 Leaf will be able to be upgraded to full 20 amp. If it can't this will effect how fast the Leaf can be charged, is that correct?
2. Will the EVSE upgrade be capable of charging the Leaf in roughly 4 hours with the new charger in the 2013 Leaf, or is it limited to the slower 8 hours of standard level 2 charging?

I haven't seen a public statement here from Phil (creater of EVSEupgrade) but you will see a bright yellow banner at his website promising even faster charging for 2013 owners. My guess is 20A compared to 16A for earlier cars, but who knows, it could even be up to the 27A that the new 6kW charger is capable of drawing. Send him a note via the contact form and find out. Depending on his answer the time will be somewhere between 4 and 8 hours for a full charge, but the real way to look at it is that you will probably get 10 to 25 miles of range for each hour of charging. That depends both on the amperage and your driving style and conditions. Personally, my car sits at home for at least 10 hours every night, and I always get at least 12 hours per night of the cheapest electrical rates, so I wouldn't care if it took 8 or 9 hours.

Ray

 

[Kataphn]

Just a thought given where you live.....be sure to check out Fontana Nissan for their great deals and service in considering where you will lease.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

1. There was some discussion as to whether the 120v EVSE that comes with the 2013 Leaf will be able to be upgraded to full 20 amp. If it can't this will effect how fast the Leaf can be charged, is that correct?
2. Will the EVSE upgrade be capable of charging the Leaf in roughly 4 hours with the new charger in the 2013 Leaf, or is it limited to the slower 8 hours of standard level 2 charging?

I haven't seen a public statement here from Phil (creater of EVSEupgrade) but you will see a bright yellow banner at his website promising even faster charging for 2013 owners. My guess is 20A compared to 16A for earlier cars, but who knows, it could even be up to the 27A that the new 6kW charger is capable of drawing. Send him a note via the contact form and find out. Depending on his answer the time will be somewhere between 4 and 8 hours for a full charge, but the real way to look at it is that you will probably get 10 to 25 miles of range for each hour of charging. That depends both on the amperage and your driving style and conditions. Personally, my car sits at home for at least 10 hours every night, and I always get at least 12 hours per night of the cheapest electrical rates, so I wouldn't care if it took 8 or 9 hours.

Ray

i agree. as an early adopter i have the rare 12 amp EVSE upgrade and have yet to be in a situation where an hour or two made the difference but I do have a DCFC 5 miles from my house that I can fall back on which helps A LOT

 

[vgonzalez]

I drive around the same mile per day not including errands and my monthly electricity Leaf usage is around 350K Watts a month, so be very careful on the electricity tariff you select from your provider, this Leaf might cost you more than a regular gas car with 40 MPG, my recommendation is do the math before going electric. In my case I have a stayhome wife with 4 kids (we use airconditioner iand central gas furnace with electric flower), I was paying to charge the LEAF .34 cents per kilowatt = $119 a month to travel 1,300 miles, so compare to a gas car 1.300 / 40 Mpg = 32.5 gallons at 3.85 =$125 per month.