To Leaf or not to Leaf?

[Bazooka]

After researching the Leaf and other EVs for weeks, I think it's time to give in and ask for some advice.

I'm considering buying or leasing a 2012 Leaf, especially at the current amazing discounts. (Local dealers are discounting SLs by over $8,500 in some cases.)

It will be driven only about 6,000 miles/year (I work from a home office), and range anxiety is not an issue, real or imagined, for daily use in my case. I live in Western NY, where we get pretty significant cold weather, snow, the whole smash, but not too much truly hot weather-- although this year was uncharacteristically hot.

I was all set to make a final buy/lease decision when I stumbled upon the discussion on this site about the "50% club" and SOC issues, which gave me pause. While I would dearly love to be driving on electrons and flipping the bird to oil companies, I'm not sure I want to put up with babysitting the battery (as opposed to a plug-and-forget daily experience).

My plan was/is to use the included 110 EVSE every night to charge up to 80% (can be done/limited automagically, right?), with almost no need to charge above that level. Over a period of 3 years (lease) or 6 (owning), what could I expect the battery range to degrade to?

Thanks in advance for help with this query, and for the site in general.

 

[kubel]

I reserved my LEAF in March 2012. I decided to lease in order to get the tax credit up front and to give me protection from uncertainties about the battery. 9 months and almost 10,000 miles later, I'm not regretting my decision to go with the lease one bit. If after 3 years my car is holding up good and the residual stays high enough, I'll buy out the lease. If the battery is trashed or the residual turns out to be very low, I'll turn it in and get the next best thing.

Trickle charging with the supplied 120V EVSE to 80% worked fine for me for the first few months with my 55-60 mile commute, but I was on the edge. Charging finished just an hour or so before I had to leave for work. It would have never worked in the winter though.

As far as cold weather range: I'm getting 50 miles of range on a 100% charge in 20F, heater running non-stop, snow tires and steel wheels installed, and a 45-60MPH commute. I'm expecting another 5 or so mile loss one month from now. I drive 60 miles per day, so I have to plug in at work. If you need more than 40 miles in January, stay tuned for a 2013 with the better heater.

Otherwise, I think a low mileage 2012 lease is the best option for you. You can always buy it out if you want to keep it, or turn it in if you don't. They are a great bargain right now.

 

[abasile]

In not-too-hot temperatures, charging to 80% instead of 100% should be plenty adequate with respect to "babying" the battery. At least that's my personal approach. I charge up to about 80% (from regenerative braking) every time I drive down "our" mountain, a 5000' descent. Then I come back home on the same charge. The round trip is over 45 miles.

As an owner, not lessee, I do try to keep the car as cool as possible whenever the weather is hot, and I use an end-timer for charging to keep the SOC low overnight. Even in hot weather, though, I charge to 100% if I need it.

In upstate New York, I really wouldn't be too concerned about heat. Even if you have a few heat waves, it's nothing at all like inland Southern California!

 

[Boomer23]

I'm in coastal Southern California, where we had a particularly warm summer last year, but I'm not in a desert region. My LEAF has 18,600 miles on it and is 20 months old. When my car was new, a 100% charge at my normal driving efficiency would take me 86 miles. Eighteen months later I did the same test and was able to go 75 miles, about a 13% loss of range. The car still meets our needs as our family's primary transportation and I'm comfortable planning drives of about 65 miles. I haven't lost any of the 12 battery capacity bars. I haven't babied the car in any way, except for one. I charged to 100% routinely for the car's first year of life, at which point I started doing 80% charges, Nissan's "long life" charging mode.


Battery life is determined, among other things, by number of charging cycles, battery age and temperature. I see that you expect to drive about 6,000 miles per year, so my car has three years of your charging and use schedule. It became apparent last summer in Phoenix that temperature is the predominant of these three major factors. There is a wiki on this forum, link up by the header, that lists the locations of all battery capacity bar losses reported to this forum. You'll see that all of them are located in the Southwest and none are in locations north of the lower third of the country.

Beyond that, we can't predict what will happen with current spec LEAFs after the second year of life. In your region and with your expected use of the car, you stand a pretty good chance of being able to enjoy the car for at least three years. As others have suggested, a lease may be a very good choice for your first EV.

I suggest that you go for it.

 

[smkettner]

I think you are good to go without worry. Even less worry with a lease. I bet you start driving more than you expect.

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

I'm one of those folks who started worrying excessively with reports coming from Phoenix about premature range loss. some months later I've gotten some more perspective. I would not worry much unless you live in a very warm area. I think it's important to be realistic about what the car is designed for. In reality, I think it's designed to keep people happy who have a 40+ mile commute in almost any whether conditions with room for some errands and room for battery degradation over time. For those who are willing to press the limits, the car can do a lot more with a bit of planning and a willingness to be flexible, particularly if you have access to fast chargers. If you have a workable commute and live in a moderate climate, the 2012 SL is awesome!

 

[Caracalover]

I believe that you will be able to do nothing but drive this car and take care of the tires for a decade or more without any worry about the main battery.

I am going on 20 months and 25,000 miles, and although I have lost a capacity bar, I am not worried about it. I still drive it about 70 miles one way on Sunday, into an extreme weather environment. (Mojave Desert)

 

[RegGuheert]

It will be driven only about 6,000 miles/year (I work from a home office), and range anxiety is not an issue, real or imagined, for daily use in my case. I live in Western NY, where we get pretty significant cold weather, snow, the whole smash, but not too much truly hot weather-- although this year was uncharacteristically hot.

Your case sounds a lot like ours. The main difference is that the climate is a little warmer here than NY. We purchased in March 2012 and we have put just over 5000 miles on our LEAF since then.

As a datapoint, I drove our 2011LEAF, which was built in June 2011, about 105 miles yesterday (not on one charge). But what was interesting to me was that even though it was under 30F when I left the garage, I still had 7 charge bars remaining after driving 43.5 miles at 5.1 miles/kwh! Now I was driving pretty slowly and I was trying some more advanced hypermiling techniques, but I was pretty surprised to be able to travel this far on just the top five bars at such a low temperature. We'll see what January and February bring. I will tell you that I'm not inclined to try out the LEAF's traction-control system in the snow anytime soon. We can take the old gas guzzlers for that.

(All that said, I still find the climate-control system in the LEAF quite baffling! It's great if I preheat, but if I forget and try to warm the cabin in ECO mode, I seem to be limited to 2kW of heater, which means freezing until I am nearly at my destination!)

Stoaty's range calculator predicts we will still have about 80% capacity after 8 years and 70% after 17 years. Here's hoping'! Your experience in NY should be better than what we get here.

Good luck with your decision!

 

[ksnogas2112]

Sounds like a perfect time to lease one. Let us know how it goes.

 

[WetEV]

After researching the Leaf and other EVs for weeks, I think it's time to give in and ask for some advice.
Over a period of 3 years (lease) or 6 (owning), what could I expect the battery range to degrade to?

What you are asking for is a model of how much the battery will degrade. See the Wiki for details, but if you can live with a 70% battery, you should be able to use the car until 2025 or so.

Based on Syracuse, NY, 87.8% after 3 years and 83.6% after 5 years.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index.php?title=Battery_Capacity_Loss#Battery_Aging_Model" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lease, especially if you don't have the income tax to take advantage of the credit. Convert to ownership if you are happy, as I expect you will be.

Note that the combination of reduced range due to use of heat and less energy stored in cold weather and reduced range due to battery degradation, about 35 miles is the longest regular trip without a recharge to plan to do in all conditions over the life of the car. A new car in reasonable weather will of course do more than twice that.

 

[essaunders]

I live in NH and have driven my LEAF about 5000 miles since I got it in late January. As you can see from my total mileage, I don't drive much - I just charge to 80% and don't worry.
I do use a L2 EVSE (Schnieder gen 1) but could probably get away with 120V. But, the convenience of the the 240 is nice if you come home from a 40 mile day in the afternoon and still want to drive in the evening without worrying about range - just plug in and charge.

The discounts occasionally make me question the full MSRP I paid -but if I'd waited I'd have been burning gas at 20mpg in my old car (not to mention likely repairs).

So, if your driving is local enough that a 6.6kw charger (rumored for 2013) or upgraded heater don't matter - go for the 2012 with discounts!

 

[LEAFfan]

I would definitely lease for two years because in two more years there will be Major changes for the LEAF and there will also be many more BEV choices out there.

 

[Bazooka]

Thanks very much to everyone who has replied (so far). I sincerely appreciate the help.

I'm still working through the details of Leaf ownership, the finances, etc., and will likely make a decision in the next couple of weeks.

The toughest part of this is peering into my decidedly sub-optimal crystal ball and trying to figure out what Nissan and other companies will be doing with EVs in the next couple of years. Will Toyota and Honda reverse their recent course changes regarding EVs? Will Nissan find a way to drop battery prices significantly, as is widely rumored? Will we FINALLY get those blasted jet packs we've been waiting for...?

 

[KJD]

Thanks very much to everyone who has replied (so far). I sincerely appreciate the help.
I'm still working through the details of Leaf ownership, the finances, etc., and will likely make a decision in the next couple of weeks.
The toughest part of this is peering into my decidedly sub-optimal crystal ball and trying to figure out what Nissan and other companies will be doing with EVs in the next couple of years. Will Toyota and Honda reverse their recent course changes regarding EVs? Will Nissan find a way to drop battery prices significantly, as is widely rumored? Will we FINALLY get those blasted jet packs we've been waiting for...?

If you are worried about what Nissan will do in the future then you should wait until Jan or Feb and see what the price is on the 2013. It is also possible they will change the battery warranty for the better, but that is pure speculation right now. The more efficient heater might be nice for NY weather.

On the other hand I really doubt that you will be able to match the lease deals out there right now.

 

[Caracalover]

Thanks very much to everyone who has replied (so far). I sincerely appreciate the help.

I'm still working through the details of Leaf ownership, the finances, etc., and will likely make a decision in the next couple of weeks.

The toughest part of this is peering into my decidedly sub-optimal crystal ball and trying to figure out what Nissan and other companies will be doing with EVs in the next couple of years. Will Toyota and Honda reverse their recent course changes regarding EVs? Will Nissan find a way to drop battery prices significantly, as is widely rumored? Will we FINALLY get those blasted jet packs we've been waiting for...?

I think there are too many people thinking that next year will be better. For that to be true, people have to step up and buy this year.