LTLFTcomposite
Well-known member
Everyone will tell you it's important to listen to your customers. That's true, but in Tesla's situation it may be increasingly important for them to listen to those who aren't their customers.
They were a start-up with the roadster, maybe even with the S. They are over a decade old on their third complete vehicle. They are not a start up. They are simply an unprofitable automobile company.smkettner said:I agree if Tesla had stopped with the Model S.EatsShootsandLeafs said:I disagree. There is a strong trend. Here is what it looks like:smkettner said:I will hold my breath until the 2nd quarter sales and financials are released.
Tesla has been in constant transition making it difficult to determine a trend.
- semi-constant losses followed by
- occasional profitable quarter and promises of more of the same followed by
- more losses followed by
- promises of "next quarter it will be different"
This company has been promising pending, sustainable profits for many years. They have been unable to deliver. Here we are almost two years out from production start of the model 3 and all they can do is burn cash.
This is a very difficult business to break into as the numerous failed car companies attest to.
I see Tesla as a sequential startup. Need to achieve critical mass before a steady cash flow or profit is seen. Could start to level out after Model Y is in production for 18 months but even then the Semi and pick-up will still be in startup mode. The stock price could fall dramatically before any real value is obtained.
TSLA is compared constantly to Amazon. I have no idea why. People can easily call to mind Amazon, which is now an insanely successful company and has beat out literally millions of others, as if their path is somehow cleared for Tesla.LTLFTcomposite said:Meh. Look at historical charts for Apple and Amazon. As my great aunt used to say it's a long road that doesn't have a turn. When Amazon dropped from 360 to 4 it was a good time to cover the short position, rather than waiting around for it to go back to 2000.
I can't help but think there are more than a few folks who wouldn't mind backing up the train. Tesla has their problems for sure, but betting against people finding solutions to problems is a risky proposition. There are many more chapters to be written in this story.
Well, it closed at around $192 on May 22nd. It looks like in pre-markets right now, it's at about $185. Will be interesting to see if tests support at around $180 and holds or goes below it...cwerdna said:Looks like the next level of support is around $180. If it goes below that, then looks like the next one is at around $140.EatsShootsandLeafs said:Down 6%+ today, no end in sight.
I will repeat as I have before: anybody long this stock should not be. The price premium is too high and does not make sense
...
Its main strategy at this point appears to be the hyperbolic claims of its CEO.
Agree with the part I quoted. Often, TSLA's price upward moves and trends are totally irrational.
Agreed. Tesla was founded in 2003, supposedly July.EatsShootsandLeafs said:They were a start-up with the roadster, maybe even with the S. They are over a decade old on their third complete vehicle. They are not a start up. They are simply an unprofitable automobile company.
Nubo said:The only way autonomous driving is going to work any time soon is if the government indemnifies the automakers similarly to how they indemnified nuclear power plants. The point isn't whether the technology is better than the "average" driver. If it becomes a driverless conveyance then the manufacturer is liable for each and every accident. And they have nice deep pockets. The automation in that case has to be practically perfect, not just "better than average". That's a huge gulf.
This isn't a Tesla problem, it's a social problem driven by people who can't bear to be torn away from their smartphones, and the manufacturers have swallowed the Red Pill thinking it will lead them to the next Killer App. To quote Morpheus, "Ironically, this is not far from the truth".
Just drive, folks.
http://archive.is/HDaohInvestors Helped Build Tesla. They Could Undo It, Too.
Producing a mass-market car takes cash, which is hard to find when sentiment turns and the stock swoons
https://electrek.co/2019/05/21/tesla-price-model-s-x-changes/Tesla cuts base price of new Model S and Model X vehicles
:https://www.wsj.com/articles/tesla-careens-from-growth-story-to-demand-worries-11559564700Tesla Faces Skepticism About Depth of Demand
Auto maker says consumer interest remains despite sales decline, concerns about meeting future goals
EatsShootsandLeafs said:With their cash burn rate leaving them only several months of expenditures before running out of cash, if they cannot get profitable and maintain (and they can't), they will have to raise again, causing yet more stock dilution.
EVDRIVER said:EatsShootsandLeafs said:With their cash burn rate leaving them only several months of expenditures before running out of cash, if they cannot get profitable and maintain (and they can't), they will have to raise again, causing yet more stock dilution.
Please show me where you go that info. Please quote the fact not a misquoted FUD statement. The Tesla regurgitated nonsense is laughable.
webb14leafs said:EVDRIVER said:EatsShootsandLeafs said:With their cash burn rate leaving them only several months of expenditures before running out of cash, if they cannot get profitable and maintain (and they can't), they will have to raise again, causing yet more stock dilution.
Please show me where you go that info. Please quote the fact not a misquoted FUD statement. The Tesla regurgitated nonsense is laughable.
Last I read was that Tesla had 10 months of cash left at their Q1 burn rate. I think that might have been from Elon himself, but don't quote me. That's just simple math. Hard to think their current burn rate (was it about $700M in Q1??) will continue forward for much longer. Plus, it's not like that burn rate is due to product losses. It's primarily due to capital expenditures.
Make no mistake. Tesla is in a race like we've rarely seen. They barely have enough cash to get their products to market. Once they get to market they have solid sales and margins. They need more product lines to get to self-sustaining profitability and growth. I personally think they will get there, but the bears have plenty of solid reasons to think otherwise.
Noone has a crystal ball, and pretending one does just makes one sound like an idiot.
EVDRIVER said:webb14leafs said:EVDRIVER said:Please show me where you go that info. Please quote the fact not a misquoted FUD statement. The Tesla regurgitated nonsense is laughable.
Last I read was that Tesla had 10 months of cash left at their Q1 burn rate. I think that might have been from Elon himself, but don't quote me. That's just simple math. Hard to think their current burn rate (was it about $700M in Q1??) will continue forward for much longer. Plus, it's not like that burn rate is due to product losses. It's primarily due to capital expenditures.
Make no mistake. Tesla is in a race like we've rarely seen. They barely have enough cash to get their products to market. Once they get to market they have solid sales and margins. They need more product lines to get to self-sustaining profitability and growth. I personally think they will get there, but the bears have plenty of solid reasons to think otherwise.
Noone has a crystal ball, and pretending one does just makes one sound like an idiot.
What you read was a quote that was altered by FUD sites that twisted his words. He never said that. Tesla's biggest issue is disinformation and short sellers, the vast majority of what you read is twisted to fit a narrative and not fact. People here still insist on spreading lies about the technical features of the cars and people take it as fact. Reminds me of some "news" organizations.
lorenfb said:Another perspective of Tesla's "profitability":
https://davidstockmanscontracorner.com/the-green-raw-deal-at-work-teslas-2-billion-zev-credit-haul-from-gm-fiat-is-the-only-reason-its-solvent/
WetEV said:lorenfb said:Another perspective of Tesla's "profitability":
https://davidstockmanscontracorner.com/the-green-raw-deal-at-work-teslas-2-billion-zev-credit-haul-from-gm-fiat-is-the-only-reason-its-solvent/
Zerohedge is a very poor source.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Ivandjiiski
lorenfb said:Another perspective of Tesla's "profitability":
https://davidstockmanscontracorner.com/the-green-raw-deal-at-work-teslas-2-billion-zev-credit-haul-from-gm-fiat-is-the-only-reason-its-solvent/
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