Two year and waiting for improvement

[Desertstraw]

Two years of my lease were just completed and I am looking to the future. My summary on the Leaf is that it is an excellent car with a completely inadequate range. Unless Nissan drops the residual to a third, I will not consider keeping it after the lease period. I wonder what Nissan is going to do with the returned cars.

In case you missed it, a post on Autoblog green gives hope for something better in the near future:

Sometimes, you have to go across the border to get the skinny on what's happening in the US. For example, did you know GM might be testing electric cars with batteries that have about three times the energy density of today's EV?

That's could be the case, since during the recent Automotive Parts Manufacturers' Association conference in Canada, The Windsor Star reporter Chris Vander Doelen spoke with J. Gary Smyth, General Motors' executive director of Global Research and Development. Smyth told Vander Doelen, "Today there are prototypes out there with 400 Watt-hours per kilogram."

We have to assume Smyth was talking about batteries made by Envia, which announced it had developed just such batteries last year (and sent along the nifty cartoon image you see above). GM invested $7 million in the company in 2011 and also made a separate licensing deal to use those advanced packs in its vehicles. While we don't know the details of what kinds of vehicles are being tested with the 400 wh/kg packs in – Smyth would not even mention the brand – but we have previously calculated that that kind of power could mean 300-mile EVs. And earlier estimates put the cost of such a car with Envia's technology at just $20,000, giving more heft to Smyth's statement to Vander Doelen that, "Innovation is exploding right now. The industry is in a period of rapid transformation."
News Source: The Windsor Star via Hybrid Cars

For those who don't remember, Secretary Chu made a big fuss about Envia a year ago. They may be for real.

 

[RegGuheert]

Here's a link: GM still talking about 300-mile EVs with high energy density batteries.

 

[EatsShootsandLeafs]

Two years of my lease were just completed and I am looking to the future. My summary on the Leaf is that it is an excellent car with a completely inadequate range. Unless Nissan drops the residual to a third, I will not consider keeping it after the lease period. I wonder what Nissan is going to do with the returned cars.

In case you missed it, a post on Autoblog green gives hope for something better in the near future:

Sometimes, you have to go across the border to get the skinny on what's happening in the US. For example, did you know GM might be testing electric cars with batteries that have about three times the energy density of today's EV?

That's could be the case, since during the recent Automotive Parts Manufacturers' Association conference in Canada, The Windsor Star reporter Chris Vander Doelen spoke with J. Gary Smyth, General Motors' executive director of Global Research and Development. Smyth told Vander Doelen, "Today there are prototypes out there with 400 Watt-hours per kilogram."

We have to assume Smyth was talking about batteries made by Envia, which announced it had developed just such batteries last year (and sent along the nifty cartoon image you see above). GM invested $7 million in the company in 2011 and also made a separate licensing deal to use those advanced packs in its vehicles. While we don't know the details of what kinds of vehicles are being tested with the 400 wh/kg packs in – Smyth would not even mention the brand – but we have previously calculated that that kind of power could mean 300-mile EVs. And earlier estimates put the cost of such a car with Envia's technology at just $20,000, giving more heft to Smyth's statement to Vander Doelen that, "Innovation is exploding right now. The industry is in a period of rapid transformation."
News Source: The Windsor Star via Hybrid Cars

For those who don't remember, Secretary Chu made a big fuss about Envia a year ago. They may be for real.

So will you buy another? I think for a brand new car two years with no major changes is not surprising.

Nissan had to pick a price and range point. I think they did a good job on it given where the tech is now. Tesla said no, we need more range. I bet the model S is far less anxious a car to drive, with huge range, but you pay for it.

 

[Nubo]

Two years of my lease were just completed and I am looking to the future. My summary on the Leaf is that it is an excellent car with a completely inadequate range. Unless Nissan drops the residual to a third, I will not consider keeping it after the lease period. I wonder what Nissan is going to do with the returned cars.

In case you missed it, a post on Autoblog green gives hope for something better in the near future:

Sometimes, you have to go across the border to get the skinny on what's happening in the US. For example, did you know GM might be testing electric cars with batteries that have about three times the energy density of today's EV?

That's could be the case, since during the recent Automotive Parts Manufacturers' Association conference in Canada, The Windsor Star reporter Chris Vander Doelen spoke with J. Gary Smyth, General Motors' executive director of Global Research and Development. Smyth told Vander Doelen, "Today there are prototypes out there with 400 Watt-hours per kilogram."

We have to assume Smyth was talking about batteries made by Envia, which announced it had developed just such batteries last year (and sent along the nifty cartoon image you see above). GM invested $7 million in the company in 2011 and also made a separate licensing deal to use those advanced packs in its vehicles. While we don't know the details of what kinds of vehicles are being tested with the 400 wh/kg packs in – Smyth would not even mention the brand – but we have previously calculated that that kind of power could mean 300-mile EVs. And earlier estimates put the cost of such a car with Envia's technology at just $20,000, giving more heft to Smyth's statement to Vander Doelen that, "Innovation is exploding right now. The industry is in a period of rapid transformation."
News Source: The Windsor Star via Hybrid Cars

For those who don't remember, Secretary Chu made a big fuss about Envia a year ago. They may be for real.

Get back to me when GM is actually making a pure BEV of ANY type for sale nation-wide.

 

[KJD]

We have to assume Smyth was talking about batteries made by Envia, which announced it had developed just such batteries last year (and sent along the nifty cartoon image you see above). GM invested $7 million in the company in 2011 and also made a separate licensing deal to use those advanced packs in its vehicles. While we don't know the details of what kinds of vehicles are being tested with the 400 wh/kg packs in – Smyth would not even mention the brand – but we have previously calculated that that kind of power could mean 300-mile EVs..

This is nothing more than wishful thinking.

When GM has a real EV with 300 mile range in the showroom, I will be the first to ask for a test drive. My prediction, it will never happen.

 

[dgpcolorado]

This is nothing more than wishful thinking.

When GM has a real EV with 300 mile range in the showroom, I will be the first to ask for a test drive. My prediction, it will never happen.

"Never" is a long time. But for the next few years I'm inclined to agree that it is just "wishful thinking".

The urban commuter range LEAF does fine for its intended purpose. Carrying around a very expensive 150 or 200 mile range battery pack for the occasional longer trip is not cost effective for most people. Those for whom cost is of no concern can buy a long range Tesla now.

 

[CMYK4Life]

I am an equal oppertunity consumer.

However the car has to be real for me to test drive and buy it.

 

[davewill]

If GM were to bring to market a BEV with a battery with triple the energy density of the current crop, I find it more likely that they would build 100-150 mile car, using the savings to make a cheaper, lighter, and more profitable car. Not a bad thing at all, mind you. I'd be very happy to see it...but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Nubo]

I'd kind of gotten over the animosity engendered by GM's handling of the EV-1.

But then they went ahead and put a monkey-wrench into the standards by throwing their weight behind the pointless "combo plug", when there's already a perfectly good standard that will have been in-use for years before GM has any meaningful BEVs in the field. It's obstructionist and anti-competitive, and they can shove it as far as I'm concerned.

 

[DeaneG]

It's also obstructionist to say you are testing 300 mile EV battery chemistry - I don't believe it. The world would have read about it in journal papers already.

 

[lion]

Two years of my lease were just completed and I am looking to the future. My summary on the Leaf is that it is an excellent car with a completely inadequate range. Unless Nissan drops the residual to a third, I will not consider keeping it after the lease period. I wonder what Nissan is going to do with the returned cars.

So are you saying you still have to turn the car in? I'm confused about the 'completed' statement, as it sounds like you still have the car. Depending on the state you are in, you may have other options, a lot has changed in the last 2 years.

 

[Desertstraw]

Two years of my lease were just completed and I am looking to the future. My summary on the Leaf is that it is an excellent car with a completely inadequate range. Unless Nissan drops the residual to a third, I will not consider keeping it after the lease period. I wonder what Nissan is going to do with the returned cars.

So are you saying you still have to turn the car in? I'm confused about the 'completed' statement, as it sounds like you still have the car. Depending on the state you are in, you may have other options, a lot has changed in the last 2 years.

All that I meant was that two years is sort of a milestone on the way to the end of my three year lease. By now I have a pretty good basis on which to know what I like and dislike about the car and to guess how other people will react to it.

 

[cwerdna]

We have to assume Smyth was talking about batteries made by Envia, which announced it had developed just such batteries last year (and sent along the nifty cartoon image you see above). GM invested $7 million in the company in 2011 and also made a separate licensing deal to use those advanced packs in its vehicles. While we don't know the details of what kinds of vehicles are being tested with the 400 wh/kg packs in – Smyth would not even mention the brand – but we have previously calculated that that kind of power could mean 300-mile EVs..

This is nothing more than wishful thinking.

When GM has a real EV with 300 mile range in the showroom, I will be the first to ask for a test drive.

Yep. We had chatter about Envia before (I haven't followed them). Take a look at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=224783#p224783" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and look at the Envia related stuff in that thread, going back a few pages.

Seems like marketing FUD and wishful thinking, for the time being.

 

[Desertstraw]

"Yep. We had chatter about Envia before (I haven't followed them). Take a look at viewtopic.php?p=224783#p224783 and look at the Envia related stuff in that thread, going back a few pages.

Seems like marketing FUD and wishful thinking, for the time being."

There is not much marketing in leaking to an obscure newspaper. Envia has posted no new information on its website for a long time. It has none of the feel of a stock scam.

 

[EVDRIVER]

Take a look at every "about to come" battery advancement and they are all press releases. This is just more PR like all the other hundreds of battery PRs each year. Those that are expecting very large leaps of capacity gains in the LEAF soon are going to be disappointed. When its time for something worth noting everyone will hear about it rolling out in a vehicle, in the meantime this is just more of the same PR and belongs in the future battery tech thread with all the other filler on ABG, the source for non-news and $20 paid posts. The devil is in the details.

 

[surfingslovak]

Given how competitive the industry is and how little information and technical detail is typically shared with consumers, I would not expect that an OEM will say anything concrete about the battery specs in their upcoming EV models. Of course, the fact that better batteries are being worked on all the time should be a given. The figures Envia quoted are public knowledge, and can easily be used in an interview as an example of where things are headed. I think it will be much more difficult to get more specific information beyond that. If you wanted to see some substantiated speculation, you might want to read the article linked below. It predicts 25% improvement in energy density in the battery chemistry the Volt uses by next year:

The Dramatically Improved Chevrolet Volt 2.0

 

[RegGuheert]

It predicts 25% improvement in energy density in the battery chemistry the Volt uses by next year:

The Dramatically Improved Chevrolet Volt 2.0

Thanks! Interesting link!

25% increase in four model years is just under 6% per year improvement, which is in-line, albeit slightly below, Carlos Ghosn's prediction of 8%/year. Not bad, IMO!

 

[dgpcolorado]

Take a look at every "about to come" battery advancement and they are all press releases. This is just more PR like all the other hundreds of battery PRs each year. Those that are expecting very large leaps of capacity gains in the LEAF soon are going to be disappointed. When its time for something worth noting everyone will hear about it rolling out in a vehicle, in the meantime this is just more of the same PR and belongs in the future battery tech thread with all the other filler on ABG, the source for non-news and $20 paid posts. The devil is in the details.

I agree and that is why I really appreciate that you have the new battery tech stuff consolidated in the All "Future" battery technology thread where it belongs. The plethora of "breakthrough" battery tech announcements gets old really quickly. Once some new battery makes it to the market in a car we can have fun dissecting the technology. Until then it is just vaporware, IMO.