What's the latest on L1 charging only?

[LTLFTcomposite]

Has anyone been able to go through the ordering process without going through some kind of L2 charging/assessment mumbo jumbo?
I heard something about a waiver.

Assuming US average driver = 12,000 miles/year

12,000 miles/365 days X 21 hours L1 charging/100 miles = 6.9 hours L1 charging/day

Totally should not be a problem for me. I might install an L2 charger at some point myself, but I have no interest in having an AV person come to the house to do an "assessment", getting one of their absurd quotes, or anything else related to that part of the process.

 

[garygid]

You must call Nissan Customer Service (1-877-664-2738) and request that they "enable the waiver" on your account, because you do not intend to have an AV assessment.

Then, IN THEORY, you will be able to order WHEN your order-day arrives.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I have completed my order without the charger assessment. Did have to call in to have the waiver enabled online first.

There are several reasons Why i am not considering an L2 installation.

The estimated price For installation Is 1 thing. I have an electrician friend Who upon further investigation (his original estimate was$ 200) states that a charger can the bill for under 500 dollars.

The other thing, i am moving. And will be doing that within a year.
I live in puget sound so i will want to move when the weather is likely to be good which will be sometime next summer.

 

[walterbays]

I've been wondering the same thing since L1 would be ample for my typical 15 miles per day. More importantly it would seem adequate for atypical days. E.g. 70 miles one day; 7 hours L1 brings range back up to 80; 50 miles next day; 7 hours L1 takes it back to 80; 15 miles next day; fully charged again.

Home L2 seems mostly a reassurance to early adopters that even if the public charging infrastructure isn't built as planned, they can still use their car conveniently for local driving as originally intended. The first Leaf owners may well need home L2 in the first year while that infrastructure is being built. For those of us who registered after 4/20, probably there's no chance of getting into the EV project with free L2 charger, website teasers notwithstanding. (Why did they even ask people who registered after May?)

By the time Nissan is willing to sell me a Leaf, the public infrastructure may exist, in San Diego at least. Then home L1 would be fine, with a rare public L2 or L3 to top it off. If the public infrastructure is still in question, then I might want an L2, but perhaps I'd go shopping on my own, as postings on this forum indicate there may be many better and less expensive options than the one offered by Nissan.

And if, by the time Nissan can produce the cars in sufficient quantity to fill orders, it has become clear that the public infrastructure is doomed... Well then, the question might be not so much L1 versus L2 as Leaf vs Volt. An unlikely outcome, I think.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Because of various work schedules the Leaf will be used for commuting 6 days week. 4 days a week will be 20 miles round trip. The other 2 days It will be a 60 mile Round trip. But the 2 days will not be consecutive So L1 charging Will be more than sufficient ans still allow us To do personal Trips in the evening.

I did the l 3 option Because we do you do trips to seattle Area 10 to 15 Times a year So a boost for the trip home would be necessary.

I would still be interested in an L2 option But much rather prefer. The Portable option.

2 b honest with you, The thought of taking over someone's Dryers connection While visiting Kind of makes me giddy

 

[smkettner]

L1 may well be plenty for me also. Home L2 with the 50% tax credit this year may also prove to be convenient at times. I plan to get a low price product only, no AV install. Probably 16a Leviton but have not seen prices yet.
No L3 on my car.

 

[Rat]

I'm still planning on L1 only. My biggest concern at this time is the unpredictable. E.g., what if I set it to charge overnight and find out in the morning that the breaker tripped five minutes after I started and I got no charge? I have a 30A circuit so that shouldn't happen, but you never know. Or the GFI might trip. Or it might not charge as fast as predicted, etc. Still, my wife drives even less than I do, so we can switch cars when necessary, so I'm not overly concerned.

 

[garygid]

The EV2104 (L2 32A EVSE, with more than basic features) is available
from www.ev-chargeamerica.com now, for a limited-time price of $649
plus tax and shipping.

It is a plug-in unit, so the install is just having an appropriate 240v socket
to plug it into. Thus, it can easily be moved to another location or house.

We have another thread on it, and we are still trying to get more details.

Actually, it is quite easy to install any EVSE so that it can be easily un-wired
and re-hard-wired at the new house.

Usually, I suspect that it is best to run the new circuit's (if required) wires to an
in-wall "fixture" or "junction" box, and mount the hard-wired EVSE over that box.
Most lkely the final wiring inspection can be done before the EVSE is even mounted.

For a plug-in mounting, the same "junction" (or "socket") box could hold the
socket that is appropriate for the plug on the EVSE's pigtail cord.

Yes, L1 is suitable for light usage, but the L2 is certainly convenient for
starting each day with a "full" e-tank.

 

[AndyH]

I, too, have decided to skip both L3 and the L2 assessment. L1 will take care of all my charging needs today, and should make for easier to manage charges once I get off-grid later.

We don't even have to telephone Nissan to get the assessment waiver - they changed my account today from the chat support line - less than 3 minutes total.

Maybe $650 for an EVSE won't be a good deal in a year or two when we have more BEVs and PHEVs on the road.

 

[TLeaf]

Thought of posting this under the "models, trim, etc." discussion as there's a fair bit of discussion going on right now about L1 cords, but this chain seemed more appropriate:

Think there will be any way to intentionally limit the current draw of the L1 charger? For example, if you know you only have a "wimpy" extension cord, any chance you could de-rate the charger to 10A at 110V? Certainly it would take longer to charge, but I can think of several instances where that wouldn't be a problem. In addition to the wimpy extension cord situation, there's also cases where you might already be running a high-amperage item off of the same household circuit, perhaps trying to keep your energy consumption under the amount generated by your solar panels (if only I had that problem!), or --heaven forbid-- perhaps you're charging the car off of a small generator that can only put out 1,000W (I know, it would take forever).

 

[DeaneG]

Think there will be any way to intentionally limit the current draw of the L1 charger?

Doubt it. Nissan's position is that you need a dedicated 120v circuit for 120v charging.

When placing my order, I had to select the (only) option to charge my credit card for the EVSE installation in order to proceed. But it's much more likely I'll buy the 24A Leviton (dryer outlet already swapped to 14-30R), and keep AV away from my credit card.

 

[smkettner]

Thought of posting this under the "models, trim, etc." discussion as there's a fair bit of discussion going on right now about L1 cords, but this chain seemed more appropriate:

Think there will be any way to intentionally limit the current draw of the L1 charger? For example, if you know you only have a "wimpy" extension cord, any chance you could de-rate the charger to 10A at 110V? Certainly it would take longer to charge, but I can think of several instances where that wouldn't be a problem. In addition to the wimpy extension cord situation, there's also cases where you might already be running a high-amperage item off of the same household circuit, perhaps trying to keep your energy consumption under the amount generated by your solar panels (if only I had that problem!), or --heaven forbid-- perhaps you're charging the car off of a small generator that can only put out 1,000W (I know, it would take forever).

Get a better extension cord already. If it will be an issue get a 100' cord with #12 wire so that you can get to a connector on an unused circuit. Nissan probably recommends no extension cord but I would use it without worry.

Small generator will be an issue. Such as a Honda 1000 probably will not cut it. Good chance a Honda 2000 will not be enough either. The issue is these generators are rated at 900 and 1600 VA continuous. Then you would need to know the efficency and power factor of the charger. Combined you may need a generator with twice the VA compared to the wattage. Before you spend money wait for some posts from people that have tested on generators they already own. I have a Kipor rated 2300VA continuous that I think will probably work. Will not know until January But I really do not plan to use it for this application.

I have not read anything about low power adjustment settings.

 

[walterbays]

I thought L2 was only useful to reassure people with "range anxiety" [tm GM] until the public infrastructure was built. I was wrong. Here's a reason L2 could be worth it, even if L1 charging could refill the battery overnight. SDG&E introduced another rate period, super off-peak, with rates less than half of off-peak

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=403&start=180

[Summer, experimental EV rates]
High Ratio - On Peak $.37838, Off Peak $.15135, Super Off-Peak $.06627

Super off-peak is only something like 12:00 - 05:00, which in many cases would be long enough to recharge with L2 but not L1. Then you could ask whether the electricity price difference is enough in your driving scenario to pay for the L2 charger, after federal tax deduction? And if not, is the greener power sold in super off-peak (more wind, more efficient fossil power plants) worth the difference in cost to you?

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

110 volts will be current limited to around 12-14 amps or so. Minimum requirements for the receptacle is a GFCI 20 amp which" should" be required for all outdoor applications including the garage and any other location where water sources are located

As far a generator goes ; it will charge at its rated current load. Now if underpowered i doubt that would cause an issue as long as the device is decently made

 

[planet4ever]

Get a better extension cord already. If it will be an issue get a 100' cord with #12 wire so that you can get to a connector on an unused circuit. Nissan probably recommends no extension cord but I would use it without worry.

I'm afraid there is more to this than "Nissan recommends". If I'm not mistaken, the electrical code requires that an EVSE must be within 18 inches of the connection to the house, and that applies to 120v as well as 240v. For 120v the EVSE is built into the provided "cord", either right at, or within 18 inches of, the wall plug. I also believe the maximum run allowed from the house to the car is 25 feet, which just "happens" to be the length of the longer cord Nissan is offering.

Yes, lots of people are going to use extension cords. I might even use one occasionally myself. Just be aware that they are not officially allowed. If, heaven forbid, an extension cord should overheat and start a fire in the middle of the night, your insurance company - or the insurance company of the friends you are visiting that night - could well get downright snotty about it.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Small generator will be an issue. Such as a Honda 1000 probably will not cut it. Good chance a Honda 2000 will not be enough either. The issue is these generators are rated at 900 and 1600 VA continuous. Then you would need to know the efficency and power factor of the charger.

Why do you not think the eu2000 would be sufficient? From what I have seen Honda generators are conservatively rated. (I found it interesting that my 5500w honda is 100lbs heavier than the unreliable piece of junk from costco it replaced that was rated at 6850w)

 

[garygid]

The subject here is L1 (120 volt, often called "110") charging, not L2 (240 volt, often called "220") charging.

At the Street Smart event in San Diego, Nissan was using an extension cord, since the "included" L1 EVSE was at the rear end of the car, nowhere near a 120v socket.

The cord from the L1 EVSE to the car went under the car, from the back to the front. This kept people from tripping on the cord. Since the LEAF was ON all day, the L1 "charging" could maintain the battery for driving the LEAF away that evening.

This "need-extension" situation will not be unusual when away from home, and I plan to carry an appropriately-rated, high-visibility, 100-foot extension cord whenever I "roam" far from home and might need an "emergency" transfusion of L1 electrons.

The primary reason for "requiring" the EVSE to be near the wall socket is to prevent there being a "live" end of the extension cord that might possibly shock somebody, especially in wet weather. This real possibility of a "live" extension cord end is why using a GFI-protected socket is highly recommended.

Another good idea, if using an extension cord, would be to have a waterproof, tamper-resistant (hard for a child to open) box to hold the two mated in-line connectors (the EVSE plug in the Extension Cord socket).

With "proper" planning, the use of an extension cord at home should be rare, to "never". However, for "emergency" charging away from home, it might be the "only" way to reach a live socket.

 

[garygid]

The current draw of L1 charging:

1. Typical L1 EVSEs will be designed to be used on typical 15-amp circuits, offering 80% of 15 (12 amps) to the car.

2. Yes, an L1 EVSE could EASILY be made to require a 20-amp breaker, and offer 16 amps to the LEAF. I suspect that the LEAF would even use the extra 4 amps (15 or 16 instead of 12), but L1 EVSEs will typically NOT be made with this capability.

3. Similarly, an L1 EVSE could easily be made to allow "turning down" the "max-current" offered to the car, at least to a minimum of 6 amps (instead of 12). Yes, this would allow the use of smaller generators, older 10-amp circuits, and some circuits that have other loads on them.

4. However, it is not expected that the typical person has sufficient knowledge to determine when a higher "max-current" setting would be OK, or when a lower setting would be needed.

5. So, it is "safer" (at least for liability) to just specify that a "dedicated" circuit is "required", it "must" be a 20-amp circuit (if you are adding one in the garage, for the EV), and that it "must" be GFI-protected.

 

[smkettner]

Small generator will be an issue. Such as a Honda 1000 probably will not cut it. Good chance a Honda 2000 will not be enough either. The issue is these generators are rated at 900 and 1600 VA continuous. Then you would need to know the efficency and power factor of the charger.

Why do you not think the eu2000 would be sufficient? From what I have seen Honda generators are conservatively rated. (I found it interesting that my 5500w honda is 100lbs heavier than the unreliable piece of junk from costco it replaced that was rated at 6850w)

It largely depends on if the Leaf charger is power factor corrected. Many chargers are not corrected and require up to 30% more apparent power. Wikipedia has a good write up on power factor. This is a non issue with utility power. If Leaf draws 12 amps the Honda can supply 13.3 and may well be fine but this is not the same as DC. Just saying I would not run out and spend $1000 and rely on it to work. Someone will test it soon enough.

 

[Mx5racer]

Is anyone that has their leaf using L1 only and if so how is it going.
I am waiting on a 16amp 220 charger and I think that I can get by on L1 only.

Any one else thought this and then scrambled for L2?

Thanks