Wheels, tires and range -- what works best?

[mckensie]

2020 SV+ 16,000mi

I recently put a new set of wheels/tires on my car: 205/55 R16 Ecopia with 16" Enkei RPF1 wheels, to replace
the stock 215/50 R17 Michelin Energy Savers on OEM 17" alloys. Primarily I was interested in increasing range:
as the SV+ rated 216 mi (EPA) and the S+ 225 mi, I figured that the wheels/tires were the difference.
When I took the stock set off the car, I weighed the wheels: OEM--45.6 lb -- replacements--32.8 lb. Wow!
Almost 13 lb lighter. This was much more than the 8 lb I was expecting.

Driving with the new combo, the car felt more like my "little" LEAF S 2015, which has the same Bridgestone Ecopias
on 16" steel wheels. The Ecopias are noisier, perhaps. Also, the car seems more "nimble", and perhaps a little zippier.

Economy: not much to report yet, though on a 60mi trip, it showed 4.4mi/kWh, which is the highest I recall seeing.
Usually we run about 4.0 to 4.2.

Plus: appearance. The Enkei Racing wheels look fantastic on the black LEAF. Nice contrast with the body color, unlike
the stock wheels, which are silver/charcoal.

Overall, quite pleasing to get rid of the (as it turns out) super heavy OEM wheels. I thought from researching alloys that they
would weigh, say 18-20 lb, but by my estimate it's more like 24 lb. I mean, come on Nissan! That's terrible.
I will say that the car "felt" a little better with the heavy wheels, and I think the Michelins stick to the road better,
but I guess you can't have everything. And, I think the odometer is now overestimating distance,
as the 16" tires are about 2.4% shorter.

Any comments would be appreciated. Anyone out there have interesting wheel and/or tire experience?

 

[summakor]

I occasionally shop for new wheels but haven't found anything affordable that I like yet. I'd stick with 17 or size up to 18 for sharper steering response and personal styling preference although they'll be generally heavier than 16s. On the one hand the car weighs 3500lbs so what's another 52 lbs, 1.4%? On the other hand it's rotating unsprung mass so it might have a disproportionate impact on acceleration, braking and helping the suspension keep it planted on the road.

I disliked the vagueness of the Energy Savers tires and swapped them out for UHP A/S tires within a month. Much more confident turn-in and that's a new-to-new tire comparison which I basically never get to do. Usually we're replacing worn down tires that are close to slicks with new ones with 3-5mm more squishy rubber in the tread and unsurprisingly the new tires deal better with rain but feel much squishier and have worse turn-in delay than the thinned out worn ones. That's a totally unfair comparison. Anyway with the upgraded anti-roll bar I'm planning on summer tires next to push the grip handling further (ZE1 ain't getting much quicker). Michelin Pilot 4S or Pirelli P Zeros maybe. Summer tires basically come with thinner, grippier tread from the factory so yeah they're not as efficient, don't last as long, are more expensive per mile, and bring more tire garbage into the world... but they make for some impressive cornering.

 

[mckensie]

Actually the SV+ weighs over 3900 lb, but my point was not saving 1.3% off the curb weight, rather 28% off the unsprung weight, which I think is very significant. I'm not a fan of ever larger wheels. I mean how big is big enough?
Have yet to measure efficiency. As far as tires, I don't buy summer tires, which as you pointed out are less efficient, more expensive (and not as good for some road conditions). Hopefully TireRack will start measuring tire efficiencies using actual EV's, so folks can know what they're laying out their hard earned $$ for. Other than OEM tires, I ran Continental True Contacts on my '15 S, and they hurt efficiency so much I took them off and replaced with new Ecopias (same as the OEM 16", which didn't last very long).

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

Yes, we moved to the 16" ev01+ for our SV+ , but very interested in the Enkeis for our other plus (S+. We are very happy with the eRange tires now that eCopias are going away. With 16s, one site showed the S+ as having range and efficiency close to the M3.

 

[mckensie]

Fantastic efficiency, Doug. Exactly what make/model are your wheels?
And what do you mean by Ecopias "going away"?
Too, do you have efficiency numbers with your "old" tires, say Ecopias or whatever, to compare to these new wheels/tires?

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

I didn't think they made.the ecopias anymore. If needing new tires, I would go with the eRanges.

 

[mckensie]

I just bought some new 2021 Ecopias for $99 ea TireRack.
The latest are $155 or so.

 

[knightmb]

I just bought some new 2021 Ecopias for $99 ea TireRack.
The latest are $155 or so.

Yeah, you can still buy inventory that floats around, but last I checked, they are either not going to make anymore in the future or have already stopped making them (in the size the Leaf uses), it's kinda confusing but that is why I've been moving away and trying new tire brands myself.

 

[mckensie]

Yeah, you can still buy inventory that floats around, but last I checked, they are either not going to make anymore in the future or have already stopped making them (in the size the Leaf uses), it's kinda confusing but that is why I've been moving away and trying new tire brands myself.

Which tires have you tried?

 

[knightmb]

Which tires have you tried?

Goodyear ElectricDrive and most recently Sailun ERange. The ElectricDrive were excellent tires and actually lasted the warranty (60K), but they were also the most expensive tires for the Leaf by far. I read a lot of good things about others experience with the Sailun ERange tires here, so once the ElectricDrives reach end of life, I replaced them with the Sailun ERange last week. Mainly been doing efficiency test for range and have been very pleased with the range boost along with the great handling and quiet ride that mirror the ElectricDrive tires.

 

[TronJockey]

A few years back Niki of Transport Evolved suggested Nokian Entyre. I'm at 25k miles on my first set of Nokians. No flats, leaks or any issues so far and very low rolling resistance. They look like they have an easy 10k to 15k left on the treads.

 

[Ancient1]

Doug, I am curious as to how you are getting a range readout of in excess of 280 miles. The most I have ever seen on my SV+ is 250, and no Leaf I have ever heard of is rated for more than that. My charges typically max out at just over 200 miles. What is your secret?

 

[knightmb]

Doug, I am curious as to how you are getting a range readout of in excess of 280 miles. The most I have ever seen on my SV+ is 250, and no Leaf I have ever heard of is rated for more than that. My charges typically max out at just over 200 miles. What is your secret?

280 miles / 56 kWh usable (for an aged Leaf battery) is about 5 miles per kilowatt hour. A newer Leaf or battery can probably do better since I've seen screenshots here with them charging to +59 kWh of capacity. Subtracting 0.5 kWh for safety shutdown, the same 5 m/kWh could in theory get you (58.5 x 5 = ) 292.5 miles.

The secret is how efficient they can drive and the Leaf just makes an "estimate" based on how the drive data was recorded over a few days.

 

[Ancient1]

280 miles / 56 kWh usable (for an aged Leaf battery) is about 5 miles per kilowatt hour. A newer Leaf or battery can probably do better since I've seen screenshots here with them charging to +59 kWh of capacity. Subtracting 0.5 kWh for safety shutdown, the same 5 m/kWh could in theory get you (58.5 x 5 = ) 292.5 miles.

The secret is how efficient they can drive and the Leaf just makes an "estimate" based on how the drive data was recorded over a few days.

I have never tried to be a "hypermiler". The typical number I see is 3.2 kWh. I have seen numbers around 4, but never anything near 5 or better. I drive and use my EV in the same way as I do my ICE. Climate Control always on, "go with the flow" traffic-wise, not overly fast on the highway but not particularly slow, either. I live in the Sierra foothills, so a lot of "up and down" driving, which I would imagine pretty much evens itself out. I am always in Eco mode, B range, with the E-pedal usually on (I am not a fan of coasting, with its co-incident lack of control).
My real confusion lies in the fact that the car will not charge past 250, so I am unable to envision how the range guesstimeter gets up to over 280 - I don't care how conservatively you drive. Still a mystery to me, but thanks for the explanation.

 

[mckensie]

280 miles / 56 kWh usable (for an aged Leaf battery) is about 5 miles per kilowatt hour. A newer Leaf or battery can probably do better since I've seen screenshots here with them charging to +59 kWh of capacity. Subtracting 0.5 kWh for safety shutdown, the same 5 m/kWh could in theory get you (58.5 x 5 = ) 292.5 miles.

The secret is how efficient they can drive and the Leaf just makes an "estimate" based on how the drive data was recorded over a few days.

Doug, I am curious as to how you are getting a range readout of in excess of 280 miles. The most I have ever seen on my SV+ is 250, and no Leaf I have ever heard of is rated for more than that. My charges typically max out at just over 200 miles. What is your secret?

I think a lot of Doug's secret is the terrain he drives on. Very flat landscapes increase efficiency. I live in Pennsylvania, and with the hills around my area, the efficiency of my LEAF SV+ with stock wheels was about 4.2 mi/kWh. With the new Enkei 16" wheels, I'm seeing about 4.4 mi/kWh or so. With battery capacity of about 54.5 kWh (measured w/ LEAF SpyPro) this suggests a range of 240 mi, which I've never actually experienced. Yet.

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

Here in Chicagoland, it is just that, flat as a pancake. Even my drives to WI only see a couple hundred feet of elevation change.

I do drive conservatively and try manage my momentum when possible. Most of my drives to the store in summer are at or above 6 miles/kWh.

When I commute to work in the city (we are in the northern burbs), I am in lots.of traffic, so with a careful foot can also usually get around 6 if not using pro pilot.

Chicago is temperate, so rarely need the AC, and I also rarely run heat in winter (only sub 15F)

The GOM will max out around 5.5-5.7 miles/kWh. My SV+ has about 53kWh remaining and will see max is GOM around 285-290 miles at 89.6% SoH. Once you drop below about 92.5% SoH, you can't get the GOM to hit 300 any more.

Whe our 2019 S+ (we habe 2 Pluses) was "new" in 2020 with a 98.5% SoH, the GoM read 319 miles...above a new Modely Y at the time.

The eco tires and rims help maintain momentum both local and highway. Our last trip to Wisconsin at full 70mph (some rural highway too, and even faster in sections on 94) speed yielded 4.4 and 4.7 miles/kWh for the 2 directions.

 

[Ancient1]

My stock SV+ tires are 215/50 R 17. These are 25" diameter. Doug, I believe you dropped down to 205/55 R 16, which are 24" diameter. Would this 1" difference throw the GOM off enough to allow you to get those really high range readings?

 

[mckensie]

Note to Ancient Member: 215/50 17 O.D. = 25.46 inches, calculated.
205/55 16 O.D. =24.88 inches, calculated.
Thus the 16 inch tire is 24.88/25.46=.977 or 2.3% smaller. This should throw the odo off by that amount. [Seems like the cars' computer should have an adjustment to compensate, but IDK how to.] Notably, in my case, the new wheel/tire combo saves nearly 13 lb per wheel.
(continued below)

 

[mckensie]

Measurements with the new tires/wheels are showing efficiency readings of 4.6mi/kWh at this point in some instances, as the tires break in, whereas with the OEM 17" I was usually seeing 4.2mi/kWh at best.
That means a 9.5% increase, not accounting for the 2.3% (higher) odometer input (error). So perhaps a 7% net improvement in mileage. To me, that's well worth $1000 for the new wheels.

 

[Ancient1]

Thank you, McKensie. So are you now seeing GOM estimates of 250 to 280 like Doug has posted? I have never seen anything to indicate the computer can be adjusted to compensate for the change in tire diameter. It would be nice if there were a way to make that happen! I am just trying to understand the very high GOM figures Doug has posted when Nissan says the maximum range is less than 250 on a 62kW battery.