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Toyota Mirai Fuel Cell

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 8:30 am
by RegGuheert
It doesn't seem to have a name yet, but there is already approximate pricing!?

Anyway, here is a new article in TransportEvolved.
TransportEvovled wrote:After months of hype, Toyota has unveiled its 2015 Hydrogen Fuel Cell Sedan, the first mass-produced fuel cell vehicle to go on sale in the world. Based on the Hydrogen Fuel Cell concept car unveiled by Toyota at last year’s Tokyo Motor Show, it will go on sale in Japan next year at an approximate price of ¥7 million (£40, 464, $68,703, or €50,482).

Re: Official Toyota Fuel Cell Sedan thread

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 8:46 am
by TomT
Could they have made it any less attractive?! It's almost as if Toyota doesn't WANT anyone to buy it...

Re: Official Toyota Fuel Cell Sedan thread

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:41 am
by gsleaf
TomT wrote:Could they have made it any less attractive?! It's almost as if Toyota doesn't WANT anyone to buy it...
haha. At least people will finally stop bitching about how the Leaf looks.

Re: Official Toyota Fuel Cell Sedan thread

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:51 am
by pkulak
TomT wrote:Could they have made it any less attractive?! It's almost as if Toyota doesn't WANT anyone to buy it...
But it costs as much as a Model S! Sure, it probably has a 12-second 0-60 and looks like an econo-box, but it's in the same class because it costs the same! Just wait for all the press comparing the two as equals.

EDIT: Oh, and be prepared for the range comparisons, with this thing's 430-mile Japanese test cycle (where the Leaf get's like 140 miles) vs Tesla's 260-mile EPA rating.

Re: Official Toyota Fuel Cell Sedan thread

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:54 am
by evnow
I'm sure they will sell dozens of them annually.

Re: Official Toyota Fuel Cell Sedan thread

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:10 am
by RegGuheert
I'm betting they will never sell a single one in the U.S. but will rather only lease them.

Re: Official Toyota Fuel Cell Sedan thread

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 11:58 am
by evnow
RegGuheert wrote:I'm betting they will never sell a single one in the U.S. but will rather only lease them.
It would be interesting to see what they'll do.

With RAV4EV - they could have easily done just leases - but chose to sell it as well (perhaps reverberations of EV1 saga).

Re: Official Toyota Fuel Cell Sedan thread

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:02 pm
by RegGuheert
evnow wrote:
RegGuheert wrote:I'm betting they will never sell a single one in the U.S. but will rather only lease them.
It would be interesting to see what they'll do.

With RAV4EV - they could have easily done just leases - but chose to sell it as well (perhaps reverberations of EV1 saga).
Perhaps with the Rav4EV they have an agreement with Tesla to supply parts for the future. It might be a much more difficult proposition to maintain parts for the "Fuel Cell Sedan".

I hear the technology is advancing very rapidly! ;)

Re: Official Toyota Fuel Cell Sedan thread

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 1:27 pm
by TonyWilliams
The "big six" Large Vehicle Manufacturers (LVM) auto manufacturers of the world (Toyota, Honda, Nissan, GM, Ford, Fiat/Chrysler) were required to begin the modern day CARB-ZEV rules, starting in 2012. That's is exactly what Toyota did with Rav4 EV.

They will produce 2600 Rav4 EV's for model years 2012-2014. Toyota sells about 300,000 cars per year in California, therefore over three years, there are 900,000 oil burner cars sold.

The current 0.79% credits rule of Zero Emission Vehicle (ZEV) sales means 7110 credits over three model years. Each Rav4 EV earns 3 credits each, so 2370 battery electric cars solve that over the three model years.

But, the 9 credit hydrogen car need only 790 individual sales over three model years, or 263 per each model year during 2015 - 2017.

Things will get more dire by 2025, however if the 9 credits for hydrogen are retained (they are scheduled to disappear in 2018), then Toyota would only have to sell 5,333 hydrogen cars per year IN CALIFORNIA ONLY (none in the several other CARB-ZEV states) without any battery electric cars sold, even at 16% of total credits in model year 2025!!!!

That's about the current 2 month sales of the LEAF in the USA, and perhaps 3-6 months of the current California only LEAF sales. Again, I'm talking about 2025 model year ZEV compliance with nothing but a hydrogen car with California tax payer funded refueling stations.

Hydrogen is WIN - WIN for Toyota and others in the hydrogen camp that really don't wish to be in the ZEV game.

Model year ---- ZEV Credit % of total annual sales

2012 ------------ 0.79%
2018 ------------ 2.00%
2019 ------------ 4.00%
2020 ------------ 6.00%
2021 ------------ 8.00%
2022 ----------- 10.00%
2023 ----------- 12.00%
2024 ----------- 14.00%
2025 ----------- 16.00%

Re: Official Toyota Fuel Cell Sedan thread

Posted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 1:48 pm
by smkettner
Better keep selling RAV4EV as that FCV will be lucky to sell 2 per month after the market is saturated with the first dozen.
I thought the look was just the concept... it looks bad when it needs to look futuristic or even just average.
JMHO