SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Porsche Taycan - A 300 mile EV

Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:50 pm

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 2:05 pm
The 2012-2013 batteries had much higher rates of degradation then the newer batteries.
Here is the most extensive database available
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... 1304697563

Have a look; it is your opportunity to actually gain a clue
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Porsche Taycan - A 300 mile EV

Mon Sep 30, 2019 1:19 pm

SageBrush wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:50 pm
DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 2:05 pm
The 2012-2013 batteries had much higher rates of degradation then the newer batteries.
Here is the most extensive database available
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... 1304697563

Have a look; it is your opportunity to actually gain a clue
I took this dataset and constrained it to American owners with 85 kWh batteries from the 2013 Manufacturer year:

Image

This is consistent with what is known about Li-x batteries in general and Tesla batteries specifically: ~ 3 - 5% of capacity is lost in the first year and then shelf life/thermal degradation takes over. There are manufacturers who cycle the batteries in the factory to mimic the first year before they are put into cars. At times Tesla has simply supplied batteries that have 5% more capacity than the stated range so that owners find that their batteries enter the very slow degradation phase at about the rated range (even though they start out with ~ 5% more than expected and are sorry to lose it so quickly.) The uninformed then worry or troll that the first year pace will continue.

That would be you.
Last edited by SageBrush on Mon Sep 30, 2019 6:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

GRA
Posts: 11041
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Porsche Taycan - A 300 mile EV

Mon Sep 30, 2019 5:37 pm

Stoaty wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 7:22 pm
GRA wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 2:23 pm
As Bishop is only 40 miles (and 3,700 ft. ) from Mammoth, and EA is building a QC site there as well as in Murrieta, Riverside, Hesperia, Mojave and Coso Junction (as well as the existing site in Ontario) , getting a Taycan to Mammoth from LA or San Diego won't be an issue once they're open.
True, but it would still be a problem using Mammoth as a home base for day hikes for 5-6 days, which I did recently. Some of our drives were up to an hour each way, no problem filling up in Mammoth at the supercharger. Did another recent trip for day hikes with Bishop as our home base, which worked out only because we were staying at a hotel with L1 charging. I was able to get about 50 miles a night and had no problem driving up to 9,000 or 10,000 feet and back down. There aren't any Tesla destination chargers in Bishop, and the planned supercharging station doesn't seem to be going anywhere. There are a couple of places that have 220 volt charging, but these are RV places and I think you would have to stay there to get a charge.

There's no doubt at all that QCs or at least L2s are wanted in all the typical base camp towns along 395, and until they exist BEV owners' flexibility will be constrained. I've been trying to get Tesla and latterly EA or CEC to put QCs or at minimum L2s in at least Lee Vining (L2s just opened), Bishop and Lone Pine for years now with limited success, and they're also needed in Bridgeport (EA is doing QCs), June Lake, Mammoth (SC/hotel L2s), Big Pine (no one), Independence (L2 at motel) and Olancha (EA is doing QCs at Coso Junction to the south, which is better than nothing). Once the EA site in Bishop opens you could use the CHAdeMO.

All that being said, I was responding to your specific point about getting to Mammoth in a Taycan (or any other CCS car), and that's not going to be an issue from the south, and may not be from the west/north. I'd feel more confident about the last case if there were sites with multiple QCs between Oakdale and Mammoth and public access L2s there (instead of ones restricted to hotel guests), but all we have now is a single dual-standard QC + 1 L2 at Rush Creek Lodge, and another such plus 4? L2s going in at Groveland and the 2 L2s at Lee Vining, when two or more QCs per site are what's needed for through traffic.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

EatsShootsandLeafs
Posts: 620
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:59 am
Delivery Date: 24 Aug 2012

Re: Porsche Taycan - A 300 mile EV

Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:17 am

SageBrush wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:31 am
EatsShootsandLeafs wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:51 am
SageBrush wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 4:44 am
Inferiority complex having a bad day ?
You betray yourself.
.
You respond like a Trumper
That was a sad comment, dude.

EatsShootsandLeafs
Posts: 620
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:59 am
Delivery Date: 24 Aug 2012

Re: Porsche Taycan - A 300 mile EV

Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:22 am

EVDRIVER wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:39 am
WetEV wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:36 am
SageBrush wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:31 am
.
You respond like a Trumper
Trump and Musk, and their followers, have a lot in common.
Nonsense.
It's not at all nonsense. Cult-like behavior does not exist only within one kind of belief system.

Some of Musk's acolytes are as sure of him now as they ever have been, despite the company having floundered now for years, never having delivered the followers to the promised land of profit. TSLA now trading 3% higher than it was five years ago. Pays no dividend. S&P500 over the same period, not including dividends, is up 53%.

Yet still heathens are berated for their lack of faith. It's pitiful. Look at them tripping over themselves to discredit the Taycan, even though I've not read one review by an actual car journalist that doesn't rave about it as being superior to the Model S.

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
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Location: NM

Re: Porsche Taycan - A 300 mile EV

Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:00 am

EatsShootsandLeafs wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:22 am
Yet still heathens are berated for their lack of faith.
No ... you are berated for projecting your inferiority complex by lashing out with FUD and childish insults.

FOR EXAMPLE,
You could have commented that the Taycan has a 800 Volt system and discussed its merits Vs the 400 Volt systems in just about all other EVs including Tesla. As a Tesla fanboi I would have opined that it seems technically superior, although it carries a heavy financial cost. I would have told you that I suspect that 800 Volt will become the new standard as costs come down.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

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EVDRIVER
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Re: Porsche Taycan - A 300 mile EV

Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:40 am

EatsShootsandLeafs wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:22 am
EVDRIVER wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:39 am
WetEV wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:36 am


Trump and Musk, and their followers, have a lot in common.
Nonsense.
It's not at all nonsense. Cult-like behavior does not exist only within one kind of belief system.

Some of Musk's acolytes are as sure of him now as they ever have been, despite the company having floundered now for years, never having delivered the followers to the promised land of profit. TSLA now trading 3% higher than it was five years ago. Pays no dividend. S&P500 over the same period, not including dividends, is up 53%.

Yet still heathens are berated for their lack of faith. It's pitiful. Look at them tripping over themselves to discredit the Taycan, even though I've not read one review by an actual car journalist that doesn't rave about it as being superior to the Model S.
Do you think Tesla stock is not being manipulated? Tesla could not make target this quarter and loose 1% and they could sell 500K cars and loose 10%. Your assumptions about the stock are as logical as the stock movements. Tesla is not going anywhere soon and any rational person can see that. Trump and Musk do have things in common, Trump supporters would love to see Tesla die for reasons they don't and can't understand. Most think the govt subsidizes Tesla.

EatsShootsandLeafs
Posts: 620
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:59 am
Delivery Date: 24 Aug 2012

Re: Porsche Taycan - A 300 mile EV

Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:57 am

SageBrush wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:00 am
No ... you are berated for projecting your inferiority complex by lashing out with FUD and childish insults.
I actually think you're responding to the wrong person now. Your comment makes no sense to me.

EatsShootsandLeafs
Posts: 620
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:59 am
Delivery Date: 24 Aug 2012

Re: Porsche Taycan - A 300 mile EV

Wed Oct 02, 2019 12:01 pm

EVDRIVER wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 8:40 am
EatsShootsandLeafs wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 7:22 am
EVDRIVER wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:39 am


Nonsense.
It's not at all nonsense. Cult-like behavior does not exist only within one kind of belief system.

Some of Musk's acolytes are as sure of him now as they ever have been, despite the company having floundered now for years, never having delivered the followers to the promised land of profit. TSLA now trading 3% higher than it was five years ago. Pays no dividend. S&P500 over the same period, not including dividends, is up 53%.

Yet still heathens are berated for their lack of faith. It's pitiful. Look at them tripping over themselves to discredit the Taycan, even though I've not read one review by an actual car journalist that doesn't rave about it as being superior to the Model S.
Do you think Tesla stock is not being manipulated? Tesla could not make target this quarter and loose 1% and they could sell 500K cars and loose 10%. Your assumptions about the stock are as logical as the stock movements. Tesla is not going anywhere soon and any rational person can see that. Trump and Musk do have things in common, Trump supporters would love to see Tesla die for reasons they don't and can't understand. Most think the govt subsidizes Tesla.
As far as I know only one person has been legally admonished so far for manipulating the stock and that would be the CEO of Tesla.

It's a widely shorted stock, but that's nothing new. Stocks have been shorted for a very long time. The reason the stock is down substantially from highs is really just about its valuation being indefensible more than any nefarious orchestrations by people. The diehards will chase this stock down to double digits and scream the entire time that it's not Tesla's fault. There is however enough real money from people looking to make profits that when they see the writing on the wall they pull out. And that's the real reason it's shed 1/3rd of its all time high.

DougWantsALeaf
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Re: Porsche Taycan - A 300 mile EV

Wed Oct 02, 2019 1:01 pm

Sagebrush

Tesloop and another (i need to go find it) have compile data of the early S batteries vs. the newer S and model 3 batteries, and have found the newer ones haven’t seen the same rate of reduction. This is not meant to be creating worry or trolling, just that Tesla batteries are improving, and rates of problems were higher early on.

You could say the 2015 Leaf battery was similarly better than the 2011 battery, especially as a good number of them still have Soh in the low to mid 90s... the 30 battery not so good. Still the scale of loss is a bit higher.

Now I do find interesting that Tesla and Nissan’s battery degradation warranty are both set to 70% over 8 years.
https://electrek.co/2017/12/20/tesla-mo ... 2lkZUlkN2Y.

Surprised Tesla is sandbagging a bit, and not promising anything higher, say 80%.
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