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IEVS: UPDATE: Tesla Cars Have A Memory Problem That May Cost You A Lot To Repair

Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:37 pm
by GRA

Re: IEVS: UPDATE: Tesla Cars Have A Memory Problem That May Cost You A Lot To Repair

Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:02 pm
by LeftieBiker
I expect that Tesla-oriented aftermarket shops will start offering to just replace the flash memory chip for half the $1800 price or less. The chip itself is probably worth about $50.

Re: IEVS: UPDATE: Tesla Cars Have A Memory Problem That May Cost You A Lot To Repair

Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:12 pm
by Leaf15
LeftieBiker wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:02 pm
I expect that Tesla-oriented aftermarket shops will start offering to just replace the flash memory chip for half the $1800 price or less. The chip itself is probably worth about $50.
The chip is not even worse a few dollars currently. It just shows fundamental stupidity of designers not making it replaceable flash card. You can get 2TB high speed multi-stream flash microSD for $300 today. I doubt there will be many takers in US though, folks just not going to take a risk.

Re: IEVS: UPDATE: Tesla Cars Have A Memory Problem That May Cost You A Lot To Repair

Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:22 pm
by LeftieBiker
Leaf15 wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:12 pm
LeftieBiker wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:02 pm
I expect that Tesla-oriented aftermarket shops will start offering to just replace the flash memory chip for half the $1800 price or less. The chip itself is probably worth about $50.
The chip is not even worse a few dollars currently. It just shows fundamental stupidity of designers not making it replaceable flash card. You can get 2TB high speed multi-stream flash microSD for $300 today. I doubt there will be many takers in US though, folks just not going to take a risk.

I wasn't clear. I meant the better chip they are now using, not the Radio Shack OEM version.

Re: IEVS: UPDATE: Tesla Cars Have A Memory Problem That May Cost You A Lot To Repair

Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:55 pm
by Nubo
Tesla should be fixing these failures for free, warranty or not. They should not expect their customers to pay for such a glaring design flaw. Turn off the verbose logging and put a function in the service menu to toggle it, or if it's essential then write to a non-degradeable media that is separate from the firmware.

Re: IEVS: UPDATE: Tesla Cars Have A Memory Problem That May Cost You A Lot To Repair

Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:20 am
by cwerdna
Good summary in the IEVs article. It's interesting the press just picked up on this now. Worn out eMMC from the excessive logging to flash has been known on TMC for awhile.

This guy posted the supposed symptoms, as well: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... st-4116332.
Leaf15 wrote: The chip is not even worse a few dollars currently. It just shows fundamental stupidity of designers not making it replaceable flash card.
Agreed along w/nobody in charge caring about the excessive needless writing to flash.

Re: IEVS: UPDATE: Tesla Cars Have A Memory Problem That May Cost You A Lot To Repair

Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:44 am
by LeftieBiker
This is why SSD drives have yet to replace traditional hard disk drives in most computers: they trade speed for a relatively short "write-span."

Re: IEVS: UPDATE: Tesla Cars Have A Memory Problem That May Cost You A Lot To Repair

Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:04 am
by cwerdna
LeftieBiker wrote:
Thu Oct 17, 2019 12:44 am
This is why SSD drives have yet to replace traditional hard disk drives in most computers: they trade speed for a relatively short "write-span."
They're not that short. Good SSDs have many dies and the writes can be spread out across them. Also, if you don't completely fill the drive and leave some room as buffer, that can help.

The Intel X25-M G2 160 gig SSD (as my boot and programs drive) I got in mid-2010 and that was on my main PC, an old Intel i7-860 based PC still works fine. It's not close to worn out. I just checked and Intel's tool said only a bit over 30 TB has been written to it. Media wearout indicator SMART stat is at 92. Sector re-allocated count is at 9. This has grown a bit over the years. Their tool has a graph "estimated life remaining". I'd guesstimate it's somewhere past 90%.

The above drive is MLC. https://www.anandtech.com/show/2808/2 has some pics inside.

I've switched over to a newer PC I built in mid-2018 w/a different SSD (Samsung 960 Evo 500 GIG). 8.9 TB has been written to it so far. Per https://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/m ... er/960evo/, they warrant it for 3 years or 200 TBW. Per https://www.anandtech.com/show/10833/th ... 1tb-review, it's TLC. This PC will likely be retired before the drive hits 200 TB of writes.

Some folks have done insane torture tests on SSD to see when they'd die. Quality ones can last quite awhile.
https://techreport.com/review/27909/the ... -all-dead/ - last 2 drives died after 2.5 PB of writes
https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/endur ... rites.html - best one died at 9100 TB of writes (9.1 PB)

That said, TLC and QLC drives have less endurance than MLC and SLC. SLC is too expensive for consumer applications. See example ratings for these QLCs guys: https://www.anandtech.com/show/13078/th ... nd-arrives. https://www.enterprisestorageforum.com/ ... flash.html has a table of SLC to TLC.

Some machines cannot be had with hard drives any longer. Apple no longer sells a single laptop with a hard drive. That ended at least a few years ago.

Re: IEVS: UPDATE: Tesla Cars Have A Memory Problem That May Cost You A Lot To Repair

Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:58 am
by LeftieBiker
Most laptops, of course, have shorter lives than expensive desktops. I'm not arguing with you, though. I guess that this is another example of the world moving on while I wasn't looking.

Re: IEVS: UPDATE: Tesla Cars Have A Memory Problem That May Cost You A Lot To Repair

Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 6:23 am
by jlv
LeftieBiker wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:02 pm
I expect that Tesla-oriented aftermarket shops will start offering to just replace the flash memory chip for half the $1800 price or less. The chip itself is probably worth about $50.
The shop near me (Electrified Garage) roots the car and lowers the logging level to reduce the number of writes. They also replace the part for much less than that.