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ecoobsessive
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Re: I Want my (fast) DC!

Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:03 am

I would be satisfied if the Nissan dealers would just know the difference between L2 and L3. My dealer showed me his "quick charge station" got me excited - until I realized it ain't so - it's just an L2. :cry:

And that's not just here in Texas.....
MrZorg wrote:
EVDRIVER wrote:The QC port is not the same as the L2...
Even the Nissan dealers can't get this right yet. Both local dealers I've visited keep referring to their L2's as quick chargers... :roll:
Martha
Red SL + QC (Finally got first QC on 5/19/19)
solarpowered by 5.52 kW PV with unreliable Enphase microinverters

edatoakrun
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Re: I Want my (fast) DC!

Sun Feb 20, 2011 11:45 am

Confirms my worst suspicions that the EV manufactures without DC capability are obstructing the infrastructure development.

"By year's end the Chicago area will have more public rapid-charging stations than anywhere else in the world - capable of juicing up the Nissan Leaf and the Mitsubishi i-MiEV when they start selling in the area a year or so from now - but the super-fast chargers will not be compatible with the Ford Focus EV that will be available in Chicago and its suburbs later this year.

So reported the Chicago Tribune in today's edition. The paper also reported that by the time Chicago's 73 direct-current fast-charging stations are installed next January, they could be mostly obsolete. That's because the Chicago system is using a Japanese-developed charging protocol and there's a big effort in the U.S. to adopt a difference standard for rapid charging.

...SAE is considering the Japanese protocol, but the group is under pressure from General Motors and other automakers to not use the outlet that is compatible with the Leaf and the i-MiEV in part to create a problem for their makers."

http://blogs.edmunds.com/greencaradvisor/

PS- Go to the news article linked above:

http://discussions.chicagotribune.com/2 ... 0110216/10

to find a depressing assortment of EV misinformation in the comments.
no condition is permanent

GroundLoop
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Re: I Want my (fast) DC!

Sun Feb 20, 2011 11:55 am

walterbays wrote:Someday I'd love to be able to throw a switch in the garage and feed my PV output straight into the car's DC port - as opposed to converting the PV output DC to AC with losses, feeding it to the grid with losses, waiting until midnight, bringing power back over the grid with losses, sending it to the car's charger, converting it AC to DC with losses, and finally into the battery.
UC San Diego has them:
Photovoltaic panels make DC power. Batteries are charged with DC power. But the electric grid runs on AC. And every time you convert electricity from one type of current to another, you lose some energy.

In the UCSD test, some cars will charge directly from solar panels on car ports, while others will charge from batteries that have been charged with solar power. A third method will use the electric grid as a backup.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011 ... rgy-solut/

edatoakrun
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Re: I Want my (fast) DC!

Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:54 am

At my local Nissan dealer, in Redding Ca, I was told a DC charger installation there was impossible (2 L2 chargers are 24 hour accessible) because Redding Electric Utility could or would not provide 3 phase service. But I have read on other threads that 3 phase is not neccessary for DC charger installations.

Would members with a greater understanding of the US grid design, commercial service standards, and DC charger design, please explain power requirements and just how difficult it is to locate DC charge stations?

Is my understanding is that there are large numbers of locations with sufficient infrastructure for DC charge locations-everywhere there is a "commercial" power supply-incorrect?

BTW, I spoke to a PG&E rep on Friday, who said parts for the Vacaville DC charger are on order from Japan, So half the current US DC fast-charge infrastructure will be down for a while longer...
no condition is permanent

DarkStar
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Re: I Want my (fast) DC!

Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:44 am

edatoakrun wrote:At my local Nissan dealer, in Redding Ca, I was told a DC charger installation there was impossible (2 L2 chargers are 24 hour accessible) because Redding Electric Utility could or would not provide 3 phase service. But I have read on other threads that 3 phase is not neccessary for DC charger installations.
Technically this is correct, however the off-board charger that Nissan is using may require three-phase service. It's all about the charger's ability to convert the incoming voltage and amperage to 400 VDC at varying amperage levels for the car. It could be done on single-phase as well, but would require higher amperage requirements.
edatoakrun wrote:Would members with a greater understanding of the US grid design, commercial service standards, and DC charger design, please explain power requirements and just how difficult it is to locate DC charge stations?

Is my understanding is that there are large numbers of locations with sufficient infrastructure for DC charge locations-everywhere there is a "commercial" power supply-incorrect?
If I wanted three-phase service for my home, technically I could buy it as the wires do run on the same poles that I current get single-phase service from. Most "industrial" sites will already have three-phase service installed, but if a site only had single-phase and wanted a three-phase DC Quick Charger it would be a matter of getting the power from the pole to the unit.
Mikiko (2011 Nissan LEAF ETEC) Status:
Reserved: 04/20/10 | Ordered: 10/01/10 | EV Project Blink Installed: 03/22/11 | Delivered: 03/25/11 | VIN: 568

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edatoakrun
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Re: I Want my (fast) DC!

Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:03 pm

DarkStar wrote:...If I wanted three-phase service for my home, technically I could buy it as the wires do run on the same poles that I current get single-phase service from. Most "industrial" sites will already have three-phase service installed, but if a site only had single-phase and wanted a three-phase DC Quick Charger it would be a matter of getting the power from the pole to the unit.
So, the transformer nearest my (or any) home is supplied with 3 phase (what voltage?) and stepped down at this location to 240 volt single phase for residences?
no condition is permanent

DarkStar
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Re: I Want my (fast) DC!

Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:00 pm

edatoakrun wrote:
DarkStar wrote:...If I wanted three-phase service for my home, technically I could buy it as the wires do run on the same poles that I current get single-phase service from. Most "industrial" sites will already have three-phase service installed, but if a site only had single-phase and wanted a three-phase DC Quick Charger it would be a matter of getting the power from the pole to the unit.
So, the transformer nearest my (or any) home is supplied with 3 phase (what voltage?) and stepped down at this location to 240 volt single phase for residences?
More than you ever wanted to know on three-phase (and single-phase) power: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-phase_electric_power
Mikiko (2011 Nissan LEAF ETEC) Status:
Reserved: 04/20/10 | Ordered: 10/01/10 | EV Project Blink Installed: 03/22/11 | Delivered: 03/25/11 | VIN: 568

Oregon Electric Vehicle Association | Electric Auto Association

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Rake
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Re: I Want my (fast) DC!

Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:08 pm

edatoakrun wrote:
DarkStar wrote:...If I wanted three-phase service for my home, technically I could buy it as the wires do run on the same poles that I current get single-phase service from. Most "industrial" sites will already have three-phase service installed, but if a site only had single-phase and wanted a three-phase DC Quick Charger it would be a matter of getting the power from the pole to the unit.
So, the transformer nearest my (or any) home is supplied with 3 phase (what voltage?) and stepped down at this location to 240 volt single phase for residences?
This is really dependant on where you are on your serving utility's distribution map. Generally the answer is no.
(Big breath) Without burdening this post with alot of math formulae and mumbo-jumbo, I offer this nutshell explaination:

Electricity is typically stepped down several times in voltage between where it is generated and the end user. It leaves the generation station at very high voltage (100,000 - 500,000V), and is received at a sub-station where it is reduced to something your local utility uses in the 10-15,000V range (locally 13,800V or 14,400V). This travels down your utility's dist. system until it is stepped down again to (again a typical but not absolute value) 4160V. 4160V is used by large machinery, huge electric motors, industrial applications, and for local distribution. From here a lot of variables come into play. One 4160V transformer might be serving your whole neighborhood, and it is stepped from there to the end users 240V, or it could be 480V, or any flavor your utility chooses to use. City planning and zoning laws can dictate to your utility as well. If an area is not zoned for commercial/industrial use, there is no reason for a utility to deliver those voltages to those areas. Where exactly your local utility has decided to derive single phase 240v, in relation to your home, is entirely subjective.
~Rake
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smkettner
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Re: I Want my (fast) DC!

Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:17 pm

The Utility is willing to pull three phase service to a business because they have a large motor(s) running 10 to 24 hours a day and they can make money. If three phase is pulled to a QC station the utility will sell what maybe an hour a week of electricity? No money, no wire, no transformers. Now if the project pays for the connection it probably would go. Could also run into additional improvements needed upstream to meet the demand while in use. The real beauty is charging at night when the system is under utilized and that advantage does not apply to QC.
1 bar lost at 21,451 miles, 16 months.
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LEAF traded at 45,400 miles for a RAV4-EV
RAV4 traded in for I-Pace Dec 2018

edatoakrun
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Re: I Want my (fast) DC!

Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:24 pm

DarkStar wrote:
edatoakrun wrote:
DarkStar wrote:...If I wanted three-phase service for my home, technically I could buy it as the wires do run on the same poles that I current get single-phase service from. Most "industrial" sites will already have three-phase service installed, but if a site only had single-phase and wanted a three-phase DC Quick Charger it would be a matter of getting the power from the pole to the unit.
So, the transformer nearest my (or any) home is supplied with 3 phase (what voltage?) and stepped down at this location to 240 volt single phase for residences?
More than you ever wanted to know on three-phase (and single-phase) power: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-phase_electric_power
Yes, I already read this article, but was still unsure if, as your earlier comment suggests, 3 phase power is uniformly transmitted to residential (and other) transformers.

Is this correct?

If So, the Nissan Salesman was apparently misinformed when he told me that 3 phase power was unavailable on the Redding street where Crown Nissan is located. And the installation of DC Chargers would seem to be possible virtually anywhere there is a power line, so long as 3 phase service is requested from the utility, and paid for by the customer.

Is this also correct?
no condition is permanent

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