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Nubo
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Re: Dashboard display suggestions

Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:00 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Nubo wrote:The algorithms for the "trees" are obscure to the point of uselessness.

I like the bubbles. Good enough resolution for instantaneous power levels and easy to see while looking elsewhere. The double-lines are ok though not necessarily easy to discern for the farsighted. This and the fact that this is the first car I've had with nav maps, has shown me it's time for prescription eyewear :)

I'd really like to have graphs of 1-minute and 5-minute moving average power consumption on the console display.
hmmm, so you accept that someone in AZ can get 7 miles per K when others cant get 4?
I don't quite understand that response. Sure I accept it. Both are possible.
well, actually that is not obscure. its a result of thousands of different variables that we must discuss which ends up to be a very confusing meandering and long thread.
A bridge too far, imho. Given a car with 21kWH of usable energy, and a well-defined efficiency metric already available (M/kWH), there's more than enough information and incentive for a LEAF driver to be efficient. What do we gain by trying to decipher the "trees"? What units of measurement do they represent? Efficiency? Some virtualized model of CO2 avoided vs. some theoretical car? How many of the thousands of variables can we be aware of at once and modify, and how can we possibly use virtual "trees" to predict the outcome of future manipulations of such a huge matrix?
what we should be discussing is the trees. this puts EVERYONE on a level playing field but then again, that is against our nature. we as a human species always looks to get a leg up on the competition.
I think maybe we are looking at this from two very different perspectives. To what form of competition are you referring?
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

DaveinOlyWA
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Re: Dashboard display suggestions

Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:30 pm

Ok fine, let's get rid of the trees.

But what they do is suppose one drives 40 miles, averages 6M/K and gets 3 trees and someone else drives 40 miles and averages 4M/K but gets 4 trees?

Ah who cares! The trees are gone
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 10,081 mi, 95.03% SOH
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Nubo
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Re: Dashboard display suggestions

Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:44 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:Ok fine, let's get rid of the trees.

But what they do is suppose one drives 40 miles, averages 6M/K and gets 3 trees and someone else drives 40 miles and averages 4M/K but gets 4 trees?

Ah who cares! The trees are gone
I can tell you feel strongly about something here but honestly I think I'm not understanding your point.

Can you explain it in a more straightforward way? How would you recommend a LEAF driver get the most benefit from the trees display in practical application? And how do you define that benefit?
I noticed you're still working with polymers.

DaveinOlyWA
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Re: Dashboard display suggestions

Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:54 pm

If it had a dial gauge that ran from 1 to 100 and was labeled "driving efficiency" then I suppose that would be ok?
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 10,081 mi, 95.03% SOH
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TomT
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Re: Dashboard display suggestions

Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:27 pm

No, because driving efficiency is just as meaningless without knowing precisely what goes in to calculating it.
DaveinOlyWA wrote:If it had a dial gauge that ran from 1 to 100 and was labeled "driving efficiency" then I suppose that would be ok?
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Nekota
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Re: Dashboard display suggestions

Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:37 pm

TomT wrote:No, because driving efficiency is just as meaningless without knowing precisely what goes in to calculating it.
DaveinOlyWA wrote:If it had a dial gauge that ran from 1 to 100 and was labeled "driving efficiency" then I suppose that would be ok?
The trees are a good idea and its a puzzle to figure out how to improve your score or "driving efficiency" without being critical of the way you drive. It gives instant feedback on how well you are doing and it seems to sense the onset of friction braking.
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TomT
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Re: Dashboard display suggestions

Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:51 pm

Actually, I have found them to be significantly disconnected from the real world... I also love that I can grow trees by going nowhere and just burning electrons... Hardly efficient...
Nekota wrote:The trees are a good idea and its a puzzle to figure out how to improve your score or "driving efficiency" without being critical of the way you drive. It gives instant feedback on how well you are doing and it seems to sense the onset of friction braking.
Leaf SL 2011 to 2016, Volt Premier 2016 to 2019, and now:
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Nekota
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Re: Dashboard display suggestions

Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:57 pm

TomT wrote:Actually, I have found them to be significantly disconnected from the real world... I also love that I can grow trees by going nowhere and just burning electrons... Hardly efficient...
Nekota wrote:The trees are a good idea and its a puzzle to figure out how to improve your score or "driving efficiency" without being critical of the way you drive. It gives instant feedback on how well you are doing and it seems to sense the onset of friction braking.
I tried your method of growing trees by going no where and it didn't work - I turned the car on and let it sit just like you said and no trees grew.
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DaveinOlyWA
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Re: Dashboard display suggestions

Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:14 pm

Nekota wrote:
The trees are a good idea and its a puzzle to figure out how to improve your score or "driving efficiency" without being critical of the way you drive. It gives instant feedback on how well you are doing and it seems to sense the onset of friction braking.
close, very close. it is critiquing the way you drive but eliminates most of the variables. the trees represent how efficiently you drive and

1) it does not penalize you if you live in San Francisco, Seattle or any other town that cant decide if its going uphill or downhill.

2) it does not benefit you if you live in a wide open flat area like Fl or AZ (if you think i am singling out specific members of this forum, then you are right)

3) it does not care if most of your driving is on the freeway, city streets or lazy back country roads.

and the reason why is it only measures how you manage the power in the car.

so its no longer "i can drive 120 miles on a charge" and that is better than one in Seattle who cant get more than 80 due to constant changes in elevation if that 120 mile person can not get more trees.

now, its obvious that without #'s attached, it simply will not be accepted. it is really a equation using your rate of acceleration, quantity of constant velocity, gentleness of braking, etc. and its not a perfect system but keep in mind; several other cars have the same thing. on the Ford Focus Electric its a single tree branch sprouting leaves and the more efficient you drive, the more leaves you get so Nissan is not the only company who thought this information would be valuable.

Ridiculing the GOM i can understand. we know how it works and the ideology is "questionable" and so its information is misleading. but the trees are really pretty straight forward and i can understand not liking the information the trees provide and wanting something else, but completely discounting the information as useless is surprising to me
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 10,081 mi, 95.03% SOH
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planet4ever
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Re: Dashboard display suggestions

Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:41 pm

The truth is that I have never looked at the trees. I have no idea how many I grow under various conditions or what that means about my driving. But I'm willing to be educated. Dave, it sounds like you are saying they provide some sort of a "goodness" measure. Yet I have the impression that they are related to how far you go. So can you give us some sort of goodness scale, like 10 miles/tree is average, 8 miles/tree is good, and 5 miles/tree is exceptional?

Come to think of it, it's probably true that at least 80% of my trips are under 5 miles. Maybe that's why I haven't paid any attention to trees - there hasn't been enough to pay attention to.

Ray
End of April 2013: Traded my 2011 SL for a 2013 S with charge pkg.

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