derkraut
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Re: Official California SDG&E Thread

Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:12 pm

Thanks Stanley. I haven't received anything from SDG&E; so, I'll call them.
Derkraut
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DaveEV
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Re: Official California SDG&E Thread

Thu Jun 30, 2011 10:14 pm

ttweed wrote:I charged the first month we had the car on DR rate w/ the L1 charger. It cost us ~$85. We used 300+ extra kWh for the car and easily got into Tier 4 pricing ($.62/kWh). The next month was all TOU and it cost us $24 for 336 kWh. That is a $60/mo.
I think your price / kWh must be a type-o. Max residential rate for SDG&E is $0.31/kWh at Tier 4 in the summer - basically same as TOU peak rates on the EV-TOU plan or the Experimental "X" rate.

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ttweed
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Re: Official California SDG&E Thread

Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:55 am

drees wrote:I think your price / kWh must be a type-o. Max residential rate for SDG&E is $0.31/kWh at Tier 4 in the summer - basically same as TOU peak rates on the EV-TOU plan or the Experimental "X" rate.
Oops, you're right, Dave--my tier 4 rate is indeed $0.31/kWh. I'll edit my post.

thx,
TT
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SanDust
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Re: Official California SDG&E Thread

Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:21 am

ttweed wrote:Without PV, there is no question in my mind that you want a separate meter and TOU for the Leaf, regardless of which experimental rate you are assigned.
I agree with you. Assuming you had a separate meter, my point was that, because there will be times when you are going to charge other than between midnight and five in the morning, what you end up paying on the X rate and the Z rates aren't going to be as large (though still there) as people expect when just comparing the super off-peak rates.

I also agree with your observation about the those having a PV system. I suspect most people with a PV system near the coast would be better off using EV-TOU-2 than any of the experimental rates.

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lonndoggie
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Re: Official California SDG&E Thread

Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:40 am

SanDust wrote: I also agree with your observation about the those having a PV system. I suspect most people with a PV system near the coast would be better off using EV-TOU-2 than any of the experimental rates.
Seeing as how I'm one of those folks, I've wondered that, too. I have the second meter and a PV system that keeps us--on average, through the year--somewhere around Tier 1-2.

There have been discussions elsewhere on the board about the wisdom of folks like me switching to DR-SES, or, now, EV-TOU-2.

If you're over-generating, or if you're barely into tier 1 year 'round, seems like those would be fine options.

However, in our case, we over-generate only a few months--last year only two--so it's not clear that the amount we overproduce at the high rate would offset our usage at night, especially when you add charging the LEAF (I'm thinking it would cover our night-time usage, but maybe not). The LEAF would charge at a rate that's about .05/kWh more that what we're paying now with the second meter, year 'round--and in winter, no question that that would be on every kWh consumed, and, as I point out, likely so in summer, too.

What I really wish is that the now departing Google Power Meter worked with net metering; I would've had the data to actually figure it out. But it didn't and now it won't.

However, in one call to SDG&E about if/when it might work, the CS person told me SDG&E was working on possibly supplying their own such data reporting system for net metering customers--so maybe I'll get that data some day. Especially good if I got at least a year's data before the EV rate study ends.
Res: 4/20, RAQ: 10/1, Order: 10/7
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DaveEV
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Re: Official California SDG&E Thread

Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:48 am

lonndoggie wrote:What I really wish is that the now departing Google Power Meter worked with net metering; I would've had the data to actually figure it out. But it didn't and now it won't.
I noticed that after I got my 2nd meter installed for EV, I am now able to access TOU data through the SDG&E EnergyWave site (note that it uses a self-signed SSL certificate so you'll get a browser warning).

It has TOU data on 15 minute increments for the EV meter. The NET/main meter has 2 channels (A/B) - one for energy pulled in (A), another for energy pushed out (B).

I do wonder about the accuracy - the data is rounded to 0.1 kWh / 15 min interval which is the equivalent of 400W. I hope the actual billing is far more accurate than that.

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lonndoggie
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Re: Official California SDG&E Thread

Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:50 am

EnergyWave?!?! Wow, that must be the new service they'd hinted at! Looking at it now...

EDIT: It's rejecting my attempts to add our main meter, but I've added the PV meter. However, the data so far only goes up to June 15th, which is the day before we got the LEAF, so the data's pretty sparse!

I'll have to call and see what's up with the house meter.

Thanks for pointing this out!

EDIT 2: I'm in with the house meter. It got swapped out at the same time the EV meter got put in, and when I went online to get my info SDGE, when I looked at my most recent bill, it was an old corrected bill, not the most current bill, so I got the old meter number, and it won't let you register with that (even though it shows data for it).
Last edited by lonndoggie on Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Res: 4/20, RAQ: 10/1, Order: 10/7
EV Proj OK 9/17, install 4/19, 2nd meter 5/5
Pend > Apr/11 > 4/15 > 4/19 > 4/15 > 4/18 > 4/22 > 6/14 > 6/16 > 6/22
Delivered 6/15!!
VIN: 2494
Ocean Blue eTec
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DaveEV
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Re: Official California SDG&E Thread

Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:04 pm

lonndoggie wrote:EnergyWave?!?! Wow, that must be the new service they'd hinted at! Looking at it now...
It's been around for a while, but hasn't given me any TOU data until I got these new GE meters when my EV meter was installed...

SanDust
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Re: Official California SDG&E Thread

Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:12 pm

lonndoggie wrote:There have been discussions elsewhere on the board about the wisdom of folks like me switching to DR-SES, or, now, EV-TOU-2.

If you're over-generating, or if you're barely into tier 1 year 'round, seems like those would be fine options.

However, in our case, we over-generate only a few months--last year only two--so it's not clear that the amount we overproduce at the high rate would offset our usage at night, especially when you add charging the LEAF (I'm thinking it would cover our night-time usage, but maybe not).
If you're producing more than you are using between noon and six then it's hard to imagine that the increased rate you get paid for electricity produced during this period won't more than offset the slightly higher premium you pay over the base DR rate. On the EV-TOU plan you're getting a 65% premium over the average of the other two rates and those two base rates are only about 12.5% more than what you'd pay for the base DR. That's more than a 5:1 advantage.

Just try one day. Say you use 20 kWh on this day and you also use 20 kWh spread equally out over the day. On straight DR net metering you'd net out to zero. But on EV-TOU-2 you come out better. If production was 20 kWh about 13 kWh of that would be during the hours of noon and six and you'd net 8 kWh for a credit of $1.80. The other 7 kWh of production from 6:00 AM to noon would net you 2 kWh and a credit of $.33. Combining the two credits and you could buy 13.7 kWh of power. Since you'd only be needing to buy 10 kWh you'd now have a credit.

If you want to get more into the numbers, a reasonable assumption is that your PV system will produce 56% of total production at peak summer, 28% at peak winter, and the rest at off peak. But the big deal is how much you consume during the peak hours in summer.

One thing making this easier is that there is little difference between the "X" rate and EV-TOU-2 so you can actually not even include charging the Leaf when doing the calculations. All you have to look at is your household usage.

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lonndoggie
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Re: Official California SDG&E Thread

Fri Jul 01, 2011 5:08 pm

SanDust wrote: If you're producing more than you are using between noon and six then it's hard to imagine that the increased rate you get paid for electricity produced during this period won't more than offset the slightly higher premium you pay over the base DR rate.
The only way it wouldn't work out is if we use so much juice at night that it chews up the credit and we end up with net kWh at that rate beyond the tier 1 rate--assuming we'd stayed in tier 1 with the DR rate. Looking back a couple of months, we paid a total rate of $.13863 for tier 1, and that's all we had, 203kWh of which (what's the baseline, 300?). That tier 1 rate is slightly higher than the super off peak rate, but it's lower than the off-peak rate.

Could it happen? Maybe. We run the A/C only in the evening, AKA off-peak. We charge the car at night, and I'd be tempted to run the pool motor (the overwhelming heavyweight when it comes to power consumption) at night.

I also have to admit that most of my prevaricatin' (as Wallace would say to Gromit) was over the DR-SES rates, which are higher overall and less likely to lead to success.
SanDust wrote: One thing making this easier is that there is little difference between the "X" rate and EV-TOU-2 so you can actually not even include charging the Leaf when doing the calculations.
Except I have the lower "Y" rate. :-)
SanDust wrote: All you have to look at is your household usage.
Gee, that's what I said! And, now that I have the data from EnergyWave, I'm figuring it out; got me a Google Docs spreadsheet that I just need to drop the numbers into as they come available, it'll calculate it out for me and I and compare it with what I've paid. Once the study is over, I'll be ready to pick how I want to go forward.

So far, for the data I have for June, I'd be ahead going with EV-TOU-2. I think. I'm assuming that it contains raw numbers from the house meter, which includes the EV meter; can't imagine it'd be otherwise.

But, then again the numbers I have so far don't include any LEAF charges--it only goes up to 6/14, just before we got the car. Odd that it's so far behind.
Res: 4/20, RAQ: 10/1, Order: 10/7
EV Proj OK 9/17, install 4/19, 2nd meter 5/5
Pend > Apr/11 > 4/15 > 4/19 > 4/15 > 4/18 > 4/22 > 6/14 > 6/16 > 6/22
Delivered 6/15!!
VIN: 2494
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