Is the CCS to CHADEMO adapter legitimate?

[cornbinder89]

Whether you like Elon Musk or not, Tesla understood the necessity for convenient, reliable charging a dozen years ago. Other manufacturers only got religion in the past year. It will take a few years for any EV, other than Tesla, to use any L3 charger as Tesla will have to upgrade many of their Superchargers to allow CCS charging, even with adapters. Meanwhile, Superchargers have turned into a lucrative business for Tesla.

If we replace the Tesla, it may not be a Tesla, but it certainly won't be a Nissan.

Tesla invested in their own charging network, something that gave them a "leg up" for long distance use. Their cars were more expensive, and more than double the price of a Leaf when they came out. That was partly what allowed them to finance the charging network.
Leaf was conceived as a local car, Tesla was not. Two vastly differing uses and designs with the price point to boot.
Leaf doesn't have active cooling for the battery, and as such, doesn't make it ideal for fast discharge and recharge regimes that long trips require.
I compare this to the trucks I owned. I could use my semi as my "personal car" but at around 5 MPG that doesn't make sense. I could use my 1942 K-7 to tow a semi (they did "back in the day") but 35 MPH would get old real quick (esp on a run between Iowa and Montana).
The point is to use an item the way and what it was designed to do. Yeah, a Leaf can make an occasional road trip, but that is not where it does best.
Forcing to do what it was not designed for, will give less then satisfactory result.

 

[prft]

ChaDeMo works just fine. There are quite a few chargers around. Of course, the long-term writing is on the wall. As others have said, regular DCFC is not really what the LEAF is all about.

Demanding Nissan retrofit all LEAFs with CCS1 or NACS is a bit ridiculous.

Regarding the legitimacy of the CCS1↔ChaDeMo adaptor...

I've been following the CCS1↔ChaDeMo tests that "NomadicHippie" has been doing. The adapter works, with some caveats. It seems that not all charging networks play nice at this point, so I am holding off for now. So the adapter appears to be 100% legitimate and the company is fully committed to getting it to work in the US market. There is at least one more company coming to market with an adapter as well.

 

[DavidMW]

Surely we should be pressuring the charger companies to retain adequate provision for Chademo? In the UK the picture is mixed - one major network, Gridserve, has scaled back on Chademo considerably, to 1 in 4. Other providers such as Instavolt offer 50/50 CCS and Chademo. Ionity is exclusively CCS. With careful planning we're able to make 300 mile journeys with only occasional frustrations. Since Gridserve operate most of the motorway service area charging we quite often have to make a detour to find available charging points. We still love our Leaf!

 

[Dooglas]

I read these CHAdeMO discussions and cries of outrage with more than a little skepticism. I personally think that dissatisfaction with the LEAF, or with EVs in general, is mostly a matter of buyers not being very clear about their vehicle requirements or about the capabilities of the EV they are considering. In my opinion, the LEAF has never been a particularly good choice for long distance travel. Given the current situation for fast charging, any EV clearly has limitations for long distance use. If you understand all that and are looking at a LEAF for local use with most or all charging done overnight at home, then fast charging isn't really a priority need - or a need at all. And that is not to mention the other consideration that fast charging a LEAF can be hard on battery life. I am on my third LEAF, I purchased it with no intention to need or use CHAdeMO charging. I already understood it was likely on its way out and that didn't matter to me. My current SL+ meets my expectations for how I use an EV.

 

[frontrangeleaf]

I read these CHAdeMO discussions and cries of outrage with more than a little skepticism. I personally think that dissatisfaction with the LEAF, or with EVs in general, is mostly a matter of buyers not being very clear about their vehicle requirements or about the capabilities of the EV they are considering. In my opinion, the LEAF has never been a particularly good choice for long distance travel. Given the current situation for fast charging, any EV clearly has limitaions for long distance use. If you understand all that and are looking at a LEAF for local use with most or all charging done overnight at home, then fast charging isn't really a priority need - or a need at all. And that is not to mention the other consideration that fast charging a LEAF can be hard on battery life. I am on my third LEAF, I purchased it with no intention to need or use CHAdeMO charging. I already understood it was likely on its way out and that didn't matter to me. My current SL+ meets my expectations for how I use an EV.

Amen.

+1 on all of the above.

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

We drive long distance with our Leafs, and while not as frequent/common, have had a much more consistent experience with Chademo than with my ccs ev drives.

 

[BillAinCT]

Also, EVgo partnered with Nissan to include CHAdeMO in their chargers. In the north east EVgo with CHAdeMO is not hard to find and several have 2 or more plugs. One I use often has 6! My beef now is that it cost me much more than the gas that I would have needed to get home. $0.69/kWh is ridiculous!

 

[Toby]

I read these CHAdeMO discussions and cries of outrage with more than a little skepticism. I personally think that dissatisfaction with the LEAF, or with EVs in general, is mostly a matter of buyers not being very clear about their vehicle requirements or about the capabilities of the EV they are considering. . . .

Agreed but I'd like to add a bit. Buying an EV is a new experience for many and they may not do their homework. They assume that an EV is just like an ICE but runs on electricity. The problem there is that many, if not most, car sales reps don't know any more about EVs than their customers and are ill prepared to enlighten them.

There are people like us who charge at home and rarely need a roadside fast charge. However, when we over extend our battery (deliberately or through oversight) we need to find a Chademo station that actually works for us. On our last trip to the big smoke we needed a boost to get home and found the first two chargers didn't work; fortunately the third one did. I know a couple of roadside fast chargers that have been "broken, waiting for repairs" for more than a year and others that have been removed.

Driving an EV is an adventure and we love our Leaf. Adventures do have their risks.

 

[BillAinCT]

Very well stated Toby. I can't agree with you more. I had a colleague who had a Gen 1 and traded it on on a used Bolt, also knowing that he would eventually get a brand new battery under the recall, warned me about CHAdeMO going obsolete. I did my homework, saw the Nissan partnership with EVgo, and I took a big chance that a CCS to CHAdeMO adapter would materialize for the future. That fortunately is closer to fruition. With the amount of EVgo's within 150 miles from me, I purchased sight unseen (because the local dealer in 2021 had no Leafs) and the one I found with a Blue SL+ had only one left. Except for the annoying axle click I regret nothing!

 

[badq45t]

I don't post here too often but for sure there is no reason to buy a Leaf today in 2024 given that Nissan has given up on the car, not even doing a SL version anymore and not wanting to spend a dime on the engineering to replace to CCM (why not I really don't get given that Ariya has it so they know how to do it). I hate Tesla and not a fan of their cars but if you plan long trips or it is your only car there really is little or no choice. Soon GM, Ford, MB, Volvo/Polestar, Lucid and others will move to tesla chargers. My wife has 2021 SL Plus which I bought new in 21' as her commuter and runabout car, it is fantastic and I can say I haven't even ever plugged into a public charger, we have 2 level 2's at home (I have Merecdes S550e as well). For what the leaf is great but I can see where anyone that tries to do longer trip with anything but Tesla is unlikely to have a good experience.

 

[marshallinwash]

I don't post here too often but for sure there is no reason to buy a Leaf today in 2024 given that Nissan has given up on the car, not even doing a SL version anymore and not wanting to spend a dime on the engineering to replace to CCM (why not I really don't get given that Ariya has it so they know how to do it). I hate Tesla and not a fan of their cars but if you plan long trips or it is your only car there really is little or no choice. Soon GM, Ford, MB, Volvo/Polestar, Lucid and others will move to tesla chargers. My wife has 2021 SL Plus which I bought new in 21' as her commuter and runabout car, it is fantastic and I can say I haven't even ever plugged into a public charger, we have 2 level 2's at home (I have Merecdes S550e as well). For what the leaf is great but I can see where anyone that tries to do longer trip with anything but Tesla is unlikely to have a good experience.

I believe Ford is suppose to start sending out adapters next month. We know they should work, as "Out of Spec Motoring" has tested the preproduction adapter Ford sent them. The preproduction adapter also works with the Rivian.

So outside of the short cable issue, you should be able to use most V3 and V4 Tesla superchargers when driving a Rivian or Ford Mustang or Lightning, providing you have the adapter. I would think GM won't be too far behind.

If you don't want to wait for the manufacture to send you a free adapter, you can buy an aftermarket one today from Lectron.

https://ev-lectron.com/products/lectron-vortex-plug-tesla-supercharger-nacs-to-ccs-adapter

I wonder if one's hate for Tesla applies to boycotting their superchargers.

 

[DavidMW]

I can only speak for the UK. We bought our 2018 Leaf in 2020 (s/h of course) and at that time the motorway service area provider was Ecotricity. Their chargers all had Chademo and CCS connectors. Our experience of long-distance travel was very good apart from the occasional faulty charger. Then Gridserve took over from Ecotricity and installed new chargers with 1 in 4 Chademo, which dramatically downgraded the service, with frequent queues. Thankfully some other providers have been installing chargers with equal Chademo provision and although this can call for a bit of advance planning we manage well. We love our Leaf and have no plans to change it. After 6 years and 67k miles the battery is still top notch.

 

[wstager]

I don't post here too often but for sure there is no reason to buy a Leaf today in 2024 given that Nissan has given up on the car, not even doing a SL version anymore and not wanting to spend a dime on the engineering to replace to CCM (why not I really don't get given that Ariya has it so they know how to do it). I hate Tesla and not a fan of their cars but if you plan long trips or it is your only car there really is little or no choice. Soon GM, Ford, MB, Volvo/Polestar, Lucid and others will move to tesla chargers. My wife has 2021 SL Plus which I bought new in 21' as her commuter and runabout car, it is fantastic and I can say I haven't even ever plugged into a public charger, we have 2 level 2's at home (I have Merecdes S550e as well). For what the leaf is great but I can see where anyone that tries to do longer trip with anything but Tesla is unlikely to have a good experience.

My 2023 Leaf has 17,000 miles on it with 100% battery capacity, mostly because I never fast-charge. Well, I did once, just to make sure the connector worked! It's a perfect car for city driving. My ICE car is the long-distance runner. Will replace it with an Ariya after Nissan switches over to NACS.

 

[tricia.collick]

Surely we should be pressuring the charger companies to retain adequate provision for Chademo? In the UK the picture is mixed - one major network, Gridserve, has scaled back on Chademo considerably, to 1 in 4. Other providers such as Instavolt offer 50/50 CCS and Chademo. Ionity is exclusively CCS. With careful planning we're able to make 300 mile journeys with only occasional frustrations. Since Gridserve operate most of the motorway service area charging we quite often have to make a detour to find available charging points. We still love our Leaf!

A few weeks ago the CEO of chademo.org in the us offered contact in a post, I did, had a very detailed reply from him, it may be that Tesla will wade in as theirs is much better than CCS and closer to CHADEMO GRIDSERVE may have to rethink their UK strategy (I hope), HOLD YOUR NERVE LOYAL LEAFers !

 

[kaiat]

@tricia.collick In the UK and Europe, Tesla are now using the CCS-standard and thus have no interest in Chademo.

 

[tricia.collick]

that's not what the CHADEMO guy thought

 

[BillAinCT]

My 2023 Leaf has 17,000 miles on it with 100% battery capacity, mostly because I never fast-charge.

Is this information based on a LeafSpy readout or using the battery health graph on the dash? I also want to say that there isn't any evidence with the 62kWh battery chemistry that fast charging is harmful. Look at it this way. Every time you brake with full regen you are in fact fast charging. It may not be long but it's being done.

 

[Chad E. Mo]

On my way to watch the 2024 eclipse, I charged at some new (installed 5/23) chargers that had 3 CCS and one CHAdeMO connections.
https://www.plugshare.com/location/465598. This installation was supported by the Ohio EPA and the Diesel Mitigation Trust Fund, part of the VW settlement.

Many states' DMTF trusts require the DCFC installations include CHAdeMO for five years.

As long as the grants are available, we may see CHAdeMO chargers being installed (<-Ohio 2022 map). Ohio has/had $75M in the trust and used $8M in 2022 for DCFC stations.

 

[DavidMW]

I use a mix of 7kWh, and rapid (approx 45kWh) charging on long journeys. The battery state reported when serviced has been excellent every year. The rapid charging rate is carefully managed by the Leaf and drops to around 20kWh at 80% and under 10kWh at 90% so I think the old belief that rapid charging shortens battery life has long since been addressed.

 

[coulomb]

I use a mix of 7kWh, and rapid (approx 45kWh) charging on long journeys.

Charging speed is measured in kW, not kWh. kWh measure accumulated energy over time (hence the h for hours in the unit).

... and under 10kWh at 90% so I think the old belief that rapid charging shortens battery life has long since been addressed.

The reduced charge current at higher battery SoC prevents immediate catastrophic damage due to over-charging one cell, but it still heats the battery, and heat is the enemy of battery longevity. The effect is possibly minor in cars with active cooling, but the Leaf doesn't even have that.