Battery Exchange

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themotorman

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Jun 27, 2011
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I started back in 1960 with EVs and have felt and still do that a battery exchange system would be the best fit for EV's . You can read my article published many years ago but basically still valid.
http://www.members.cox.net/rdoctors/evs.html.

The concept is a standard pack or packs ( for large vehicles ) used by all the EV makers.
This is the same as using an AA, C or D cell makes sense for nearly all the electronics stuff.
Please let me have comments I don't think it is too late to get some fed assistance to make this happen. Then I could drive as far as I want with my EV.. not just locally as now. ( I have a Leaf).
BTW the Agassi system is only specific for his vehicles and is not a universally applicable system. First the pack standard then... ( also think about new car makers and how nice it would be if they could just allocate a space and connection system without having to spend a fortune on a built in pack like the Leaf!.)
 
I liked your article, I saw two flaws with it. The first is that you don't go into the cost of creating the battery swap infrastructure. A stock of EV batteries, plus mass charging equipment and automated battery swap machines costs lots of money up front. You can install a boatload of public charging stations for that kind of money. The plan also assumes we can get buy in from most (all?) EV manufacturers on a standardized battery module. Considering they can't even agree on an L3 charging connector...

All that said, the LEAF was designed for battery swap and apparently Israel is going with this approach. We live in interesting times.

Edit: Tony below jogged my memory. It's the Fluence that is doing battery swap in Israel, although I'm pretty sure that there was a battery swap test pilot using LEAF taxis in Japan.
 
themotorman said:
I started back in 1960 with EVs and have felt and still do that a battery exchange system would be the best fit for EV's . You can read my article published many years ago but basically still valid.
http://www.members.cox.net/rdoctors/evs.html.

The concept is a standard pack or packs ( for large vehicles ) used by all the EV makers.
Click to expand...


So how about everybody adopt the Nissan/Renault EV sold in Israel (Renault Fluence Z.E) ?
 
davewill said:
I liked your article, I saw two flaws with it. The first is that you don't go into the cost of creating the battery swap infrastructure. A stock of EV batteries, plus mass charging equipment and automated battery swap machines costs lots of money up front. You can install a boatload of public charging stations for that kind of money. The plan also assumes we can get buy in from most (all?) EV manufacturers on a standardized battery module. Considering they can't even agree on an L3 charging connector...

All that said, the LEAF was designed for battery swap and apparently Israel is going with this approach. We live in interesting times.
Click to expand...

Thank for your thoughtful response. The article does discuss the stock pile of EV packs and my conclusion is that that although you have to have them at the exchange stations, the TOTAL capacity would be less because you don't have to have such big packs in the cars. Also total efficiency would be higher due to lighter cars. One thing I did not think of when i wrote the article was that having charging stations could be useful for load levelling and also emergency power for an area since the charged packs could be a very useful energy source. In fact I wish the Leaf had made the pack output available, as power outages at home could be handled by unloading some of the packs stored power...
I realise that getting car manufacturers to agree would be very hard but this is where the fed. government can be useful. There are so many areas where standardisation is valuable look at USB ports .. It is a place where everyone wins.
 
There are a few can't be done and too expensive issues that have been resolved.

One premise is recharging is not possible with a 120v outlet. This is something many of us have been doing for months.

Charging system or 240v at home is too expensive. Actually it turns out that it is not that expensive. My home was prewired with an EV circuit as part of local city code. Many others have pulled a 240v circuit for less than $500.

The exchange time of 30 seconds seems optomistic. Some could need two exchanges just getting to work. I would loath going to an exchange station as much as a gas station.

The cost of exchange does not seem to have a profit and I suspect in reality would be much higher. Rent or purchase of the facility may not have been included. At cost charging is really only going to happen at home. And with vehicles that charge there could be opportunities for free charging systems at business that would encourage your patronage. Employers may also provide charging at no or minimal cost.

Battery technology has changed. Lead acid takes a long time to charge and is hard on the battery to cycle 80% per day. These issues are about eliminated with the current lithium batteries.

The exchange system may have had its place in years past or with a fleet but it just is not practical today.
 
smkettner said:
...Charging system or 240v at home is too expensive. Actually it turns out that it is not that expensive. My home was prewired with an EV circuit as part of local city code. Many others have pulled a 240v circuit for less than $500.

The exchange time of 30 seconds seems optomistic. Some could need two exchanges just getting to work. I would loath going to an exchange station as much as a gas station...
Click to expand...
I think you're assuming, unnecessarily, that battery swap would replace home charging. I would think that most people would continue to home charge, both for convenience, and for cost reasons.
 
smkettner said:
There are a few can't be done and too expensive issues that have been resolved.

One premise is recharging is not possible with a 120v outlet. This is something many of us have been doing for months.

Charging system or 240v at home is too expensive. Actually it turns out that it is not that expensive. My home was prewired with an EV circuit as part of local city code. Many others have pulled a 240v circuit for less than $500.

The exchange time of 30 seconds seems optomistic. Some could need two exchanges just getting to work. I would loath going to an exchange station as much as a gas station.

The cost of exchange does not seem to have a profit and I suspect in reality would be much higher. Rent or purchase of the facility may not have been included. At cost charging is really only going to happen at home. And with vehicles that charge there could be opportunities for free charging systems at business that would encourage your patronage. Employers may also provide charging at no or minimal cost.

Battery technology has changed. Lead acid takes a long time to charge and is hard on the battery to cycle 80% per day. These issues are about eliminated with the current lithium batteries.

The exchange system may have had its place in years past or with a fleet but it just is not practical today.
Click to expand...

Thanks for comments . Although lithium has made life a lot better it still is impossible for me to make a quick round trip to either LA or SF with my new Leaf, I live almost 1/2 way between. There are NO fast charge stations and even if they existed it would still take at least 20 minutes at them assuming they are not already in use. Having to recharge every 60-70 miles ( fast freeway driving) makes it unrealistic for distance travel. Battery exchange could make it possible although still not as convenient as a gas station ( ugh!! ) Vehicle cost would not have to include either the battery or the charging system with the exchange system. Also charging stations could weed out battery pack failures and have a much better way to handle recycling.
 

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