TEG
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Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 8:43 pm

Re: Andy Palmer and Chelsea Sexton Discuss the Nissan LEAF

Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:12 pm

I had my LEAF in to a body shop today to get an estimate to have a fender scratch repaired. The guy at the body shop was curious about the car and said "What if you get in a bad crash and damage the battery? How much would that cost to replace?"
I said "I don't know exactly... It isn't published yet." He said, "Oh well, *I* can find out..." And he proceeded to pull up some car info from his service computer. He had the whole cutaway diagram of the car, and clicked on the battery modules. He looked 'shocked' when he saw the battery modules all said $0.00
He said it was unheard of for his pricing computer to not have a value for any part.
I told him if the battery was damaged it would probably have to be sent to a factory service center only. He was surprised at that as his shop normally handles all manner of repairs...

kcarmich
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri May 18, 2012 10:20 am
Delivery Date: 11 Oct 2011

Re: Andy Palmer and Chelsea Sexton Discuss the Nissan LEAF

Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:10 pm

I love my LEAF, but hate the blasted Accept/Deny button press everytime I get into my car. We should hold a blackout carwings event, try to get as many LEAF owners to all deny carwings T&C all starting the same day. We could do it to start on Black Friday? Anybody else interested?

EVDrive
Posts: 514
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:21 pm
Delivery Date: 21 Apr 2011
Leaf Number: 776
Location: SF Bay Area, Ca

Re: Andy Palmer and Chelsea Sexton Discuss the Nissan LEAF

Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:20 pm

I think there is a lot of wishful thinking going on with the price of the battery.

I couldn't find the article but read on one for the green car blogs last month that the price of lithium is up 30%.

In addition, ford is easing into EV's and one reason for that is the battery price.

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/107 ... 0-says-ceo

I can totally understand why Nissan is not releasing the cost and price of the battery. In the near term it might be just to expensive to make sense to replace. I for one don't care so much. I plan to upgrade to a car with a bigger battery ASAP and if for some reason, I can't sell my Leaf for a good price, I'll keep it for an around town car and drive it into the ground. Or hopefully upgrade to some aftermarket cells in the future form Nissan, Tesla/Panasonic, Enginer, or some newcomer.

We would all prefer to know, however, I think we are too worried about the battery price. This in not a cell phone battery. The should design these to upgrade though and Andy said that is their plan.

For me the most important thing is that they provide detailed linegraph estimates to people that are in hot climates which show the yearly degradation estimate of the battery in relation to heat, yearly miles, averqge speed driven and time. Provide this data with a correlation to range estimates over time as well if possible. That last one might be too tricky though. I don't blame them for not giving us this data before because they didn't have it. Now they are getting close to 2 years of real world data which is way better than their previous estimates based on accelerated testing.

As I said before, a path to upgrade would be a great goodwill gesture. As a few others said, offering to sell battery capacity insurance or the option to buy replacement plan like tesla offered with the roadster are other great goodwill ideas.

Now leasing is only 200 a month for 2 years which is a great option for those looking to buy a leaf for the first time or for those wishing to trade in the leaf they currently own to releive battery degradation fears.
- SF Bay Area
- 2011 Leaf traded in at 46,000 miles, 3 years, lost 1 bar
- Upgraded to 2014 Rav4EV with Quickchargepower.com CHAdeMO port, 53,000 miles
- Tesla Model 3 reserved

JRP3
Posts: 406
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:04 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Jun 2015
Contact: Website

Re: Andy Palmer and Chelsea Sexton Discuss the Nissan LEAF

Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 pm

TEG wrote: He had the whole cutaway diagram of the car, and clicked on the battery modules. He looked 'shocked' when he saw the battery modules all said $0.00
Order as many as you can! :mrgreen:

JRP3
Posts: 406
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:04 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Jun 2015
Contact: Website

Re: Andy Palmer and Chelsea Sexton Discuss the Nissan LEAF

Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:51 pm

EVDrive wrote:I think there is a lot of wishful thinking going on with the price of the battery.

I couldn't find the article but read on one for the green car blogs last month that the price of lithium is up 30%.
You are correct that any price below $8K or more for a new pack is probably way off, but the cost of lithium has little to do with it. There is very little lithium in the pack and even though the price has gone up it's still relatively cheap.

EVDrive
Posts: 514
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:21 pm
Delivery Date: 21 Apr 2011
Leaf Number: 776
Location: SF Bay Area, Ca

Re: Andy Palmer and Chelsea Sexton Discuss the Nissan LEAF

Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:09 pm

JRP3 wrote:
TEG wrote: He had the whole cutaway diagram of the car, and clicked on the battery modules. He looked 'shocked' when he saw the battery modules all said $0.00
Order as many as you can! :mrgreen:
I would like 2 packs if they are $0's. I would like to stack 2 full packs on a trailer to tow around as a range extender, and I thought my plan would be too expensive.
- SF Bay Area
- 2011 Leaf traded in at 46,000 miles, 3 years, lost 1 bar
- Upgraded to 2014 Rav4EV with Quickchargepower.com CHAdeMO port, 53,000 miles
- Tesla Model 3 reserved

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linkim
Posts: 495
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 5:06 pm
Location: Silicon Valley

Re: Andy Palmer and Chelsea Sexton Discuss the Nissan LEAF

Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:19 pm

Here is an article (May 15, 2010) quoting the cost of the battery:

http://green.autoblog.com/2010/05/15/ni ... ser-to-18/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"A couple weeks ago, the Times of London reported that the
battery in the Nissan Leaf cost the automaker around $9,000 to
produce. We covered the story here, but were hesitant to agree
with what seemed to be an incredibly low price. We went with the
story because Nissan had told us that a profit will be made on
each Leaf sold, so the low battery price partially made sense. We
were still skeptical of the numbers though, apparently with good
reason, because a new report pegs the battery cost at around
double the previously reported amount. Mark Perry, Nissan's
chief product planner for North America, tells The Wall Street
Journal that the actual cost is a little less than $750 per kilowatt
hour, bringing the total to just below $18,000."
LEAF SL + QC
Reserved: 4/20/10
Received: April 19, 1 year after reservation

thankyouOB
Posts: 3583
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:14 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2011
Leaf Number: 1442
Location: Coastal LA

Re: Andy Palmer and Chelsea Sexton Discuss the Nissan LEAF

Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:40 pm

TEG wrote:I had my LEAF in to a body shop today to get an estimate to have a fender scratch repaired. The guy at the body shop was curious about the car and said "What if you get in a bad crash and damage the battery? How much would that cost to replace?"
I said "I don't know exactly... It isn't published yet." He said, "Oh well, *I* can find out..." And he proceeded to pull up some car info from his service computer. He had the whole cutaway diagram of the car, and clicked on the battery modules. He looked 'shocked' when he saw the battery modules all said $0.00
He said it was unheard of for his pricing computer to not have a value for any part.
I told him if the battery was damaged it would probably have to be sent to a factory service center only. He was surprised at that as his shop normally handles all manner of repairs...
the plot thickens.
maybe there are no replacement batteries and you have to buy a new leaf.
that doesnt sound like a very good strategy for nissan.
may reserve/delivery 4/30/11
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red SL with etec L3
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dgpcolorado
Posts: 3176
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Location: The Western Slope, Colorado

Re: Andy Palmer and Chelsea Sexton Discuss the Nissan LEAF

Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:18 pm

With regard to the idea that needing to replace the battery pack in a LEAF was unexpected, I noticed this tidbit in the manual (page EV-3):
The Li-ion battery has limited service life, and when its charging capacity falls below a specific level, the EV system warning light will illuminate. Owners should bring their vehicle in for inspection and possible battery replacement.
I wonder if anyone has seen that light yet?
Blue 2012 SV Dec 2011 to Feb 2016
CPO 2014 Tesla S60 Mar 2016
One car, no ICE, at last!

EVDrive
Posts: 514
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:21 pm
Delivery Date: 21 Apr 2011
Leaf Number: 776
Location: SF Bay Area, Ca

Re: Andy Palmer and Chelsea Sexton Discuss the Nissan LEAF

Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:35 pm

Wow, if the battery costs $18,000 then Nissan should definitely use Panasonic cells like Tesla instead of their own cells. The Panasonic batteries cost half as much and have 2x the energy density. There is a good chance for $18,000, Nissan and Panasonic could put a 40kwh battery in the Leaf. This is likely because for each 20kwh hour increase in battery size, Tesla charges $10,000 more for the upgrade on their Model S.
- SF Bay Area
- 2011 Leaf traded in at 46,000 miles, 3 years, lost 1 bar
- Upgraded to 2014 Rav4EV with Quickchargepower.com CHAdeMO port, 53,000 miles
- Tesla Model 3 reserved

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