The Super Storm and our LEAFing friends back East

I didn't see a thread on this, so I thought I'd start one to wish the best to all of our forum friends back East as this major storm comes ashore. You folks are in our thoughts and prayers here in the West and other unaffected regions, and we hope that you and your families get through this tough week healthy and whole.

Also to provide a discussion thread for LEAF-related happenings as this very significant storm affects that large area of the country.

Are any of you moving to higher ground? Are you taking any special precautions with your charging equipment at your home? Are any of you concerned and want to seek advice on driving an EV through somewhat flooded intersections as compared with driving an ICE car? Are you making sure to charge your LEAF to 100% before power failures occur?

More generally, will there be situations where EVs such as the LEAF are able to provide supportive transportation when gas pumping is down, as happened in the Japanese tsunami of 2011? And will some of you be impacted by limited driving range if power failures are prolonged?

Are there other topics or advice that you'd like to seek from the forum members related to the storm? I'm sure that the experts here will be glad to help where they can.

Thank you for setting up the thread, Boomer. It's been a big topic on Facebook; some of my friends are affected as well. Saw the following post in the Volt group. It looks like they could be up to a month without electricity. :shock:

Thanks for the well-wishes, Boomer! It doesn't take a lot of wind for us to lose electricty around here and with such a large storm, I expect any outages that do occur will take some time to get repaired.

Boomer23 said:

Are you making sure to charge your LEAF to 100% before power failures occur?

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Yes. I charged to 80% yesterday morning and will go to 100% this morning before the winds get really high.

I refer to our LEAF as the LEAFboat during storms as it is really awesome for providing electricty. We used it during the derecho event on June 30 to provide power for our neighbors who did not have a generator. In this storm, it will be nice to be able to provide electricity to our refrigerator and freezer while the storm is still raging without having to drag the generator out in the rain and wind.

To date, I have only ever used a couple of modified sine wave inverters with the LEAF. This time, if the power is out long enough, I may connect up a 12V-input 2000VA sine-wave inverter I have to a 120/240VAC autotransformer to allow it to drive our power panel to allow the LEAF to pump water for us and provide other small loads.. I will post new photos if I end up doing this.

Boomer23 said:

More generally, will there be situations where EVs such as the LEAF are able to provide supportive transportation when gas pumping is down, as happened in the Japanese tsunami of 2011?

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While we could use the LEAF for transportation, I feel it is more valuable as a source of electricity. Our ICE vehicles are fueled and since they have no dual-use ability to also provide more than just a little electricity, I will likely use those for transportation.

Boomer23 said:

And will some of you be impacted by limited driving range if power failures are prolonged?

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Fortuately we do not have to evacuate and we have ICE vehicles in case we need to travel.

Just for reference, I checked our electricity co-op's outage map last night before bedtime. They showed 6 meters without power out of a total of 151,000. After the June 30 derecho, they had about 50,000 meters without power. It will be interesting to see how this event compares with that situation in which some people did not get their power back for five days.

RegGuheert said:

I refer to our LEAF as the LEAFboat during storms as it is really awesome for providing electricty. We used it during the derecho event on June 30 to provide power for our neighbors who did not have a generator. In this storm, it will be nice to be able to provide electricity to our refrigerator and freezer while the storm is still raging without having to drag the generator out in the rain and wind.

To date, I have only ever used a couple of modified sine wave inverters with the LEAF. This time, if the power is out long enough, I may connect up a 12V-input 2000VA sine-wave inverter I have to a 120/240VAC autotransformer to allow it to drive our power panel to allow the LEAF to pump water for us and provide other small loads

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Very interesting. I hope that the effects of the storm won't be quite as dire as some predicted, and look forward to see your rendition of the events.

It sounds like Nissan should consider their LEAF-to-home solution for the US market. The MiEV power Box, which can supply up to 1.5 kW from the CHAdeMO port could be of interest as well. We had a decent-size thread on that, and I've heard a similar request in the ActiveE Facebook group.

Not sure if you were up for a laugh, but Tom Moloughney shared the following weather forecast for Virginia. This takes the cake!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1fUmFVmOjw[/youtube]

surfingslovak said:

Very interesting. I hope that the effects of the storm won't be quite as dire as some predicted, and look forward to see your rendition of the events.

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Thanks! We are not in the highest impact areas and we are also very well prepared, so we expect to be O.K. Others may not fare as well as we do.

surfingslovak said:

It sounds like Nissan should consider their LEAF-to-home solution for the US market. The MiEV power Box, which can supply up to 1.5 kW from the CHAdeMO port could be of interest as well. We had a decent-size thread on that, and I've heard a similar request in the ActiveE Facebook group.

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Yeah, LEAF-to-home would be a cleaner solution but it seems a little expensive for the few times it might be needed. As others have commented, it seems like it is more valuable for the power companies to provide an effective distributed generator that can be tapped at will.

Thanks for the tip on the MIEV Power Box. Something like that with a standard 240V 30A generator connector on it would be outstanding!

My Leaf is fully charged just in case we decide to evacuate at the last minute. I have it parked at an office building down the street that has a parking lot at ground level, under the main floor of the building (the building is on stilts, basically). Main concern here is wind, they are calling for 80-90mph winds, so I don't want anything hitting my car. The other fear is the flooding and storm surge. I live on an peninsula, with water less than a mile from my house on 3 sides. They are calling for an 11 foot storm surge, but I live on the highest part of the peninsula, 26 feet above sea level, so I think I'll be okay. The local power company (LIPA) is telling us to plan for 7-10 days without power. My Leaf isn't going to like that very much.

RegGuheert said:

I refer to our LEAF as the LEAFboat during storms as it is really awesome for providing electricty.

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Do you have a link or thread on this--is it simple? Obviously a leaf isn't powering anybody's house for long, but I looked today at an uninteruptible power supply and it's easily $100 for just a kWh. The leaf has 20X that. I really think it should have a built in 120V to power laptops and things.

RegGuheert said:

To date, I have only ever used a couple of modified sine wave inverters with the LEAF. This time, if the power is out long enough, I may connect up a 12V-input 2000VA sine-wave inverter I have to a 120/240VAC autotransformer to allow it to drive our power panel to allow the LEAF to pump water for us and provide other small loads.. I will post new photos if I end up doing this.

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Unfortunately if you connect this way to the Leaf, there is a very high overhead cost, as you must leave the Leaf in "ready" mode. This means the most you will get out of the Leaf, even at small loads is only a few days. The DC-DC converter, and all the other overhead loads in the Leaf's systems will pull several hundred watts, let alone the idle draw of a sine-wave inverter. It's a shame there is no easy way to pull off the Leaf's pack without the car needing to be mostly powered up. (At least not without extensive modifications)

Also, be warned that pulling much more than 1.5 kW will begin to deplete the 12v battery rapidly, so this can only be done for short spurts.

Ingineer said:

The Leaf's DC-DC converter can supply up to about 1.7kW or 135a. This unit takes ~400v power from the traction battery and makes approximately 13 volts. (varies according to charge requirements of the 12v aux battery) It should be able to power up to 1.5kW of external load with no problems, provided most of the accessories are left off.

One interesting thing is, unlike the 12v system on a ICE car, there is almost no voltage sag. The DC-DC converter is a high-frequency switch mode converter, so it can respond very fast to high current surges, whereas a normal ICE car alternator cannot, and it's also RPM dependant for maximum output.

WARNING: NEVER connect anything directly to the negative post of the Leaf's 12v aux battery! This is a current sensor and doing so will disrupt the charging system! (Connect all accessories to the body ground, or, if high-current, the black wire screwed to the top of the DC-DC JB. (Behind the inverter)

Note: I have not tested it at full load for an extended period of time, so there may be some thermal limiting that could cause output to drop after long runs of high-current use.

Here's my test:

-Phil

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EatsShootsandLeafs said:

RegGuheert said:

I refer to our LEAF as the LEAFboat during storms as it is really awesome for providing electricty.

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Do you have a link or thread on this--is it simple?

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It's only simple if you have the equipment and the know-how to do it safely. You can certainly damage your LEAF if you are not careful. That is one reason the Chademo solutions are so attractive: they go through a standard interface which can be accessed safely.

Sorry, I effectively hid my previous post on this topic by hijacking another thread: I miss my LEAF...

EatsShootsandLeafs said:

Obviously a leaf isn't powering anybody's house for long, but I looked today at an uninteruptible power supply and it's easily $100 for just a kWh. The leaf has 20X that. I really think it should have a built in 120V to power laptops and things.

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Me, too. I thought that about the Honda Civic Hybrid we bought over ten years ago, also. FWIW, the Nissan Quest our dealership loaned us a couple of weeks ago had a 120V plug in it. It was only capable of 150W, however.

Ingineer said:

Unfortunately if you connect this way to the Leaf, there is a very high overhead cost, as you must leave the Leaf in "ready" mode. This means the most you will get out of the Leaf, even at small loads is only a few days. The DC-DC converter, and all the other overhead loads in the Leaf's systems will pull several hundred watts, let alone the idle draw of a sine-wave inverter. It's a shame there is no easy way to pull off the Leaf's pack without the car needing to be mostly powered up. (At least not without extensive modifications)

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Yes, it's pretty inefficient, but so is my generator, even though it is an inverter-based unit. The LEAF has the benefit of being quieter, and able to run in the garage without creating a carbon monoxide danger. I'd prefer to charge the LEAF from the generator and then turn it off.

Ingineer said:

Also, be warned that pulling much more than 1.5 kW will begin to deplete the 12v battery rapidly, so this can only be done for short spurts.

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Thanks! Noted! I'm aware of this based on your excellent post that you quoted. Sorry, I did not mean to imply that I could pull more than that from the LEAF. It's just that it is the only sine-wave inverter I have kicking around here. It will have to get fairly bad for me to go through the trouble of connecting that thing up.

In post-hurricane power outages here in FL the priority is to keep the fridge going, running other things is pretty much gravy. Will folks in the northeast even have to worry about that after this storm or can they just leave the milk and beer outside and let mother nature keep it cold?

Hopefully you have a full propane tank to cook up the steaks that will be defrosting in a few days.

LTLFTcomposite said:

In post-hurricane power outages here in FL the priority is to keep the fridge going, running other things is pretty much gravy.

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If you get your water from a public utility that is true. However, if you have a well, pumping water is quite important.

LTLFTcomposite said:

Will folks in the northeast even have to worry about that after this storm or can they just leave the milk and beer outside and let mother nature keep it cold?

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Maybe up north, but here it is expected to warm up after the storm.

LTLFTcomposite said:

Hopefully you have a full propane tank to cook up the steaks that will be defrosting in a few days.

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Yep. Lots of propane for cooking!

surfingslovak said:

Not sure if you were up for a laugh, but Tom Moloughney shared the following weather forecast for Virginia. This takes the cake!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1fUmFVmOjw[/youtube]

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That's just hilarious. Very well done, with just the right weatherman phrasing and delivery. Thanks for the laugh.

LTLFTcomposite said:

Will folks in the northeast even have to worry about that after this storm or can they just leave the milk and beer outside and let mother nature keep it cold?

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Here in upstate NY, the temperature is hovering around 55-60. At those temperatures, milk will sour and beer will skunk. Also, meat will rot. I doubt that it's much colder elsewhere in the northeast right now.

If this were a blizzard, you'd be spot-on. Unfortunately, it's a hurricane carrying warm air from the tropics.

Temps are the same here. It's supposed to get a bit colder after the storm passes, but not cold enough to keep food fresh. If we really don't have power for 10 days, we're going to go hungry I think.

Well, we did not lose power last night, so I have turned on the climate control on the LEAF to drain some of the energy from the battery. The only thing we have lost is our home internet service. I suspect our provider may have lost power at their tower.

RegGuheert said:

Just for reference, I checked our electricity co-op's outage map last night before bedtime. They showed 6 meters without power out of a total of 151,000. After the June 30 derecho, they had about 50,000 meters without power. It will be interesting to see how this event compares with that situation in which some people did not get their power back for five days.

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Our power company also did not experience as many outages as they did during the derecho event on June 30. This morning they have 17,900 meters without power. What is notable is that this storm did not cause outages throughout the entire service area like the storm in June did. There are outages in the valley where we live, but we just happen to have power this time around.

Out thoughts and prayers are with those who have suffered major losses from this storm.

I charged to 100% before my commute yesterday - good thing as we lost power at 3pm. No power back yet. Good thing I have 2-3 days commute in a full battery.

I am kicking myself for not ordering all cables, connectors and an inverter (for my Prius) before the storm. That would have kept my fridge going at least (and spared me the horror of eating a carton of ice cream for breakfast)

Just spent the last 23 hours with no power. Leaf survived unharmed. The rest of the neighborhood, not exactly. I spent the night with the police scanner on, listening to the calls going out for rescues on the south shore of Long Island. The water was so high, the police couldn't get to any of them. I had to eventually turn it off because it became a bit too much to listen to.



My neighbor's garage.



The tree that caused it.



Some boats down the street from me.



Boat in the neighbor's living room.



Some more boats...





The source of the boats.



With no power, the boats in the road has become a bit of a tourist attraction.

NYLEAF said:

Just spent the last 23 hours with no power. Leaf survived unharmed. The rest of the neighborhood, not exactly. I spent the night with the police scanner on, listening to the calls going out for rescues on the south shore of Long Island. The water was so high, the police couldn't get to any of them. I had to eventually turn it off because it became a bit too much to listen to.

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I'm glad to hear you are O.K. The images you have provided and those I have seen on the news are very disturbing. I hope recovery comes soon in the affected areas.

RegGuheert said:

I'm glad to hear you are O.K. The images you have provided and those I have seen on the news are very disturbing. I hope recovery comes soon in the affected areas.

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+1

Here is a photo Chris, one of the Electronauts in New Jersey, has snapped earlier today. A disaster has been narrowly averted.