DANandNAN
Posts: 408
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:25 am
Location: St. Johns/Jacksonville

Re: Turning Over a New LEAF: My Response to a Lost Capacity

Sat Jun 30, 2012 4:37 pm

Time for some more garage photos with the new Leaf. Great color choice (both times). We just got back from the dealer, still can't pull the trigger - I need ( :roll: ) it to have the 6.6 for some reason. Come on 2013's!
Chevy Volt! - I hate burning gas but the Volt can't be Turtled!
Waiting for a 2013 Leaf w/6.6 or FFE to accompany the Volt and complete our EVolution

klapauzius
Posts: 1658
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:19 pm
Delivery Date: 25 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 0197
Location: Seattle, Wa

Re: Turning Over a New LEAF: My Response to a Lost Capacity

Sat Jun 30, 2012 4:59 pm

LEAFfan wrote:There are drivers now that are close to losing their third bar so I highly doubt if these bars are going to come back when the weather cools. The cooler weather (winter) may slow down the degradation until the heat comes again (it only takes 87F or higher to start the larger degradation process and we have those temps most of the year), but another bar will disappear during the summer and the degradation will once again accelerate.
Where do the 87F come from? My understanding
was that the battery degradation is a continuous function
of temperature?

cwerdna
Posts: 11140
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Turning Over a New LEAF: My Response to a Lost Capacity

Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:46 pm

I wonder if the '12 Leafs will exhibit even more rapid heat-related battery degradation/capacity loss given the (additional?) battery insulation on the '12.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

User avatar
LEAFer
Posts: 2647
Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:10 am
Delivery Date: 19 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 000215
Location: Sacramento Area

Re: Turning Over a New LEAF: My Response to a Lost Capacity

Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:13 am

shrink wrote:Some new data:

Leaffan was generous enough to come over and take some reading with his Scan Gauge today.

On the new 2012 LEAF that now has about 100 miles on it, a 100% charge resulted in 95.3%.

My 2011 LEAF on 5/25/2012 had 85.7% on the same gauge. I lost my 1st bar on 6/21/2012. I believe leafkabob lost his 1st capacity bar one day after an 81.1% reading on his LEAF.

95.3% - 81.1% = 14.2%

So, that's just about the 15% capacity loss listed in the service manual.
Useful data, but not conclusive. On the new LEAF in particular, you need to repeat after several charges to make sure battery is balanced. Also, there seems to be a break-in effect, where the SOC will go up in the early weeks. TonyWilliams's LEAF reached 279/281 last week, although I don't know if he kept (or posted) data from the day it was new (May). Repeat in a month to confirm.
2011 Silver SL+QC [Mfg: 11/2010] 36mo/15k LEASE
06Jun2013 Status [28.5 months][34,173 miles][11 bars]
Lost CapacityBar 6/6/13 @34,173 miles while in LEAF Battery Monitor: 83.41%, 71.4F (avg); cool overnight;

User avatar
LakeLeaf
Posts: 1424
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 4:15 pm
Delivery Date: 04 Aug 2018
Location: South Lake Tahoe, California

Re: Turning Over a New LEAF: My Response to a Lost Capacity

Sun Jul 01, 2012 9:17 am

shrink wrote:
95.3% - 81.1% = 14.2%

So, that's just about the 15% capacity loss listed in the service manual.
If 95.3% is the highest reading you get, then shouldn't your calculation be:

81.1 / 95.3 = .85099 - or a 14.9% loss?

A few more weeks of hot weather and you may be over the claimed 15% in 5 years.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15050
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Turning Over a New LEAF: My Response to a Lost Capacity

Sun Jul 01, 2012 9:26 am

LakeLeaf wrote:
shrink wrote:
95.3% - 81.1% = 14.2%

So, that's just about the 15% capacity loss listed in the service manual.
If 95.3% is the highest reading you get, then shouldn't your calculation be:

81.1 / 95.3 = .85099 - or a 14.9% loss?

A few more weeks of hot weather and you may be over the claimed 15% in 5 years.
you could look at it that way if considering accessible loss only but you would have to redo your numbers since 1% is not accessible either.

now, if considering pack health, then the 14.2% is correct since it only accounts for capacity and not what is available to use
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 13,705 mi, 93.41% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

edatoakrun
Posts: 5222
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: Turning Over a New LEAF: My Response to a Lost Capacity

Sun Jul 01, 2012 9:53 am

LEAFer wrote:...there seems to be a break-in effect, where the SOC will go up in the early weeks. TonyWilliams's LEAF reached 279/281 last week, although I don't know if he kept (or posted) data from the day it was new (May). Repeat in a month to confirm.
The gid count was lower on delivery? That's interesting. Anybody else tracking gids on a LEAF from new?

You suppose that new LEAFs may be delivered with an initial restriction on the "100%" charge level, that then adjusts, up or down, in response to the battery pack's temperature experience?

Except for the relatively short-term QC effects, I expect that Tony's battery has stayed pretty cool?
no condition is permanent

User avatar
turbo2ltr
Posts: 1376
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:13 pm
Delivery Date: 04 Feb 2011
Leaf Number: 185
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Turning Over a New LEAF: My Response to a Lost Capacity

Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:56 am

Yeah there is definitely a break in period. Took about 2000 miles for me, but my guess is it's more charge cycle based so YMMV.
Silver SL-e
Ford F450 Crew Cab Hybrid Conversion

edatoakrun
Posts: 5222
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: Turning Over a New LEAF: My Response to a Lost Capacity

Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:06 am

turbo2ltr wrote:Yeah there is definitely a break in period. Took about 2000 miles for me, but my guess is it's more charge cycle based so YMMV.
I don't understand what you mean by "break in". You are referring to your LEAF, last winter, right?

You had a record of increasing gid or SOC count?

Increasing kWh use for the "100%" charge?

Longer range?

Other?
no condition is permanent

User avatar
mwalsh
Posts: 9753
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:10 am
Delivery Date: 05 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 0213
Location: Garden Grove, CA

Re: Turning Over a New LEAF: My Response to a Lost Capacity

Sun Jul 01, 2012 11:39 am

DANandNAN wrote:Do you have reports of that happening last year? Some folks have lost 2 bars, surely they would have lost 1 bar last year and then had it reappear as the weather cooled and the battery regenerated. Are there any posts about that?
That didn't happen. My best guess is what has been proposed elsewhere - that we had unreported capacity, which kept us all looking like we had 100% of capacity (or thereabouts) until spring of this year.
2011 Blue Ocean SL with 86,000 miles
2015 pack on 12/30/15
Tinted windows
Bosch AGM 12v
Ecopia 422+ tires
L1 EVSE upgrade
FIAMM horns
Superbright LED lighting
2013 sun visors
LED shifter
Heated seats
GT-R map lamp lenses
Altima illuminated door switches

Return to “Problems / Troubleshooting”