ClarD
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 8:17 pm
Delivery Date: 06 Apr 2016

Re: Leaf Spy and Leaf Spy Pro

Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:27 am

[quote="brycenesbitt"]The android store listing still recommends a different model!

https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... af_Spy_Pro
"The previously recommended Bluetooth Konnwei KW902 OBDII adapter is also no longer recommended "
"The recommended one is the LELink available from Amazon."

What recommendation are you seeing?

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14373
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Leaf Spy and Leaf Spy Pro

Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:05 pm

Ok.... when I got my LEAF, Hx was at 99.86% In 2 days, it went over 100% and has never looked back. I am now wondering if it is now a counter of sorts as its now at 115.34% and I had long given up predicting where it will peak.

In fact the pack and LEAF Spy readings have been VERY unusual.

I started

ahr = 115.05
SOH = 99.66
Hx = 99.86

"Every" day my ahr and SOH have dropped (a few times they stayed the same but those generally happened because I drove under 20 miles that day)

While my Hx has risen....meteorically.

Don't get me wrong, I am hardly seeing massive degradation. Current readings

ahr = 114.65
SOH = 99.25%
Hx = 115.34%

Sooo.... is there something wrong with LEAF Spy? Is anyone else seeing this?
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 2640.9 mi, 99.37% SOH
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

lorenfb
Posts: 2296
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: Leaf Spy and Leaf Spy Pro

Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:17 pm

A number of years ago I asked if you could calculate and display the battery resistance of the Leaf as the LeafDD device does.
If I remember correctly, you added it to your app on one of the screens. Now I can't find it. Have I overlooked something
or did you remove it? If it's still in your app, battery resistance values from the three Leaf batteries, 24/30/40 kWhrs, could
be measured and compared to better understand how battery degradation varies as a function of battery resistance.
Your info section indicates that Hx may be a measure of battery resistance.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 74K miles, 48 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F, (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 4.5K miles, 115 Ahrs, 5.5 miles/kWh (average), Hx=98, SOH=99, DOD > 20%, temp < 105F

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 13712
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Leaf Spy and Leaf Spy Pro

Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:23 pm

Your info section indicates that Hx may be a measure of battery resistance.
This is pretty widely known - even I know it. Why are you looking for a measure of internal resistance other than Hx and SOH when they correlate so well with degradation?
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

lorenfb
Posts: 2296
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: Leaf Spy and Leaf Spy Pro

Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:32 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Your info section indicates that Hx may be a measure of battery resistance.
This is pretty widely known - even I know it. Why are you looking for a measure of internal resistance other than Hx and SOH when they correlate so well with degradation?
From the other thread; http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f ... 9&start=40
I posted:

It would be insightful, if those with an '18 Leaf, or the 30 kWh, would use LeafSpy and post the value for the battery's internal resistance.
This would provide a key parameter of their battery chemistries and the thermal effects from multiple QCs/driving leading to battery
degradation. That data (battery resistance) for the earlier Leafs have been posted. If one assumes that the later Leafs have the same
battery thermal resistance to ambient, but a greater series resistance, those batteries would potentially remain hotter longer from
QCs/driving. The implication then, given the lack of TMS, is greater battery degradation than earlier Leafs.
If Hx is an actual measure of battery resistance (ohms or mohms), then assigning a % to doesn't make sense unless the Hx implies
a percentage of a battery resistance relative to 100% SOH. So with Hx equal to 115%, that would indicate battery resistance is now 115%
greater than when it was new - hard to believe. More likely if Hx is related to battery resistance, then it's in mohms and not %.
Last edited by lorenfb on Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 74K miles, 48 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F, (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 4.5K miles, 115 Ahrs, 5.5 miles/kWh (average), Hx=98, SOH=99, DOD > 20%, temp < 105F

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 13712
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Leaf Spy and Leaf Spy Pro

Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:41 pm

I saw that. You aren't explaining why comparing Hx and SOH among the three pack sizes (or the four or five chemistries) wouldn't accomplish just what you (and many of us as well) want: a way of predicting future degradation of the 40kwh pack.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

lorenfb
Posts: 2296
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: Leaf Spy and Leaf Spy Pro

Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:50 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:I saw that. You aren't explaining why comparing Hx and SOH among the three pack sizes (or the four or five chemistries) wouldn't accomplish just what you (and many of us as well) want: a way of predicting future degradation of the 40kwh pack.
It would just provide info as to what's actually happening within the battery causing the effects, i.e. increased battery heat from increased
battery resistance which in turn reduces SOH - less Ahrs - increased rate of change of battery degradation over time versus earlier batteries
as the comparative graphs indicated. If the battery resistances are greater for the 30 & 40 batteries, they will develop more internal heat
and accelerate degradation.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 74K miles, 48 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F, (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 4.5K miles, 115 Ahrs, 5.5 miles/kWh (average), Hx=98, SOH=99, DOD > 20%, temp < 105F

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 13712
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Leaf Spy and Leaf Spy Pro

Sun Apr 01, 2018 6:30 pm

We have Hx and SOH measurements for the older packs. We don't have records of the different measure of internal resistance you seek. It seems of little value to measure the oranges in the 40kwh packs and then compare them to the apples in the older packs.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

lorenfb
Posts: 2296
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: Leaf Spy and Leaf Spy Pro

Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:59 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:We have Hx and SOH measurements for the older packs. We don't have records of the different measure of internal resistance you seek. It seems of little value to measure the oranges in the 40kwh packs and then compare them to the apples in the older packs.
You're missing the key point. Yes, it's has become apparent that a high percentage of the 30kWhr batteries have a higher rate of degradation.
That most understand and agree on. Most likely some specific parameter about the battery can account for this difference, e.g. potentially
higher internal resistance resulting on average a higher battery temperature during use. If that's the case and the 40kWhr batteries also
exhibit a higher internal battery resistance, then the 40kWhr batteries may also have a higher degradation rate. If so, both of the later
batteries may have necessitated the use of TMS more than the earlier batteries. All we need is some sample data from the 30 & 40
batteries. Based on reviewing Hx values posted, it's doubtful that it represents the battery's internal resistance, other than another
measure of lost capacity.

Here're my data from my '13.

11/20/14 -13,700 miles, 76 mohms per LeafDD, 20 Deg, 73% SOC
11/27 -13,800 miles, 67 mohms per LeafDD, 25 deg, 63% SOC
11/30 - 13,900 miles, 56 mohms per LeafDD, 27 deg, 71% SOC
12/2 - 14.100 miles, 55 mohms per LeafDD, 28 deg, 67% SOC
12/16 - 14,500 miles, 89 mohms per LeafDD, 15 deg, 93% SOC
12/27/14 - 14,800 miles, 103 mohms per LeafDD, 11 deg, 24% SOC
3/10 - 17,400 miles, 60 mohms per LeafDD, 30 deg, 73% SOC
3/14 - 17, 550 miles, 56 mohms per LeafDD, 32 deg, 47% SOC
4/14 - 19,100 miles, 59 mohms per LeafDD, 25 deg. 38% SOC
5/4 - 19,989 miles, 64 mohms per LeafDD, 24 deg. 48% SOC
5/15 - 20,400 miles, 73 mohms per LeafDD, 20 deg. 41% SOC
5/22 - 20,700 miles, 58 mohms per LeafDD, 28 deg. 50% SOC
12/10/15 - 28,000 miles, 90 mohms per LeafDD, 19 deg. 92% SOC
4/5 - 32,000 miles, 74 mohms per LeafDD, 24 deg, 55% SOC
5/16 - 33,700 miles,89 mohms per LeafDD, 22 deg, 47% SOC
5/16 - 33.700 miles, 58 mohms per LeafDD, 31 deg, 76% SOC
10/5 - 39,300 miles, 100 mohms per LeafDD, 22 deg, 50% SOC
10/6 - 39,400 miles, 61 mohms per LeafDD, 30 deg, 51% SOC
10/7 - 39,500 miles, 80 mohms per LeafDD, 25 deg, 56% SOC
10/15 - 40,000 miles, 71 mohms per LeafDD, 27 deg, 45% SOC
10/30 - 41,000 miles, 74 mohms per LeafDD, 23 deg, 66% SOC
12/26/16 - 43,000 miles, 110 mohms per LeafDD, 13 deg, 77% SOC
6/10/17 - 49,600 miles, 89 mohms per LeafDD, 19 deg, 70% SOC

Sorry this discussion resulted in being in this thread. The question for this thread relates to whether LeafSpy actually
provides a direct measurement of battery resistance, i.e. delta V / delta I.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 74K miles, 48 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F, (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 4.5K miles, 115 Ahrs, 5.5 miles/kWh (average), Hx=98, SOH=99, DOD > 20%, temp < 105F

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 13712
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Leaf Spy and Leaf Spy Pro

Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:04 pm

I do understand, and we agree on what is needed to be known, but I don't enjoy long "Is so! / Is not!" arguments, so I'll let you have the last word.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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