WetEV
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Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:59 am

GRA wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:47 pm
WetEV wrote:
Mon Nov 08, 2021 3:00 pm
Yet a different path might have been followed. Might have been the end of GM, much as the CCDs that Kodak developed were used in all sorts of digital cameras that doomed Kodak's business and thus Kodak itself. Or maybe GM would have survived on the new business. Or even thrived. GM was first, GM could have innovated, lowered cost, spread out the market, and picked up on newer battery technologies.

Sad, isn't it?
Not to me. BEVs were hobbyist cars at the time of the EV1, and had minimal growth potential. GM got in to PHEVs at the right time, and BEVs likewise, and I consider the current Bolt the first BEV to almost combine the necessary price/performance to be mass-marketable. What was sad was GM's failure to offer an Voltec AWD CUV in 2016 along/instead of the Gen 2 Volt, not their abandonment of the EV1.
After EV1's (with the Ovonics NiMH battery) release, BEVs moved from hobbyist to a niche. Someone with a realistic commute could enjoy a smooth, quiet responsive electric ride. Sure, only 20,000 a year at first.

Hydrogen cars don't even have a niche. Fuel cell cars are only sold because of subsidies. At a discount. In the tightest car market in memory.

Many BEVs sell today without any subsidies.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
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WetEV
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Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
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Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:01 am

GRA wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:47 pm
WetEV wrote:
Mon Nov 08, 2021 3:00 pm
Now you point out that a mandate was needed to get the initial development. Sure. Consider this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longitude_rewards

Advances often need a push from government. The time for government to push EVs is almost over.

I've said repeatedly that I have no problem with governments pushing new tech via doing and disseminating basic research, providing R&D support, dem/val programs, loans to manufacturers, building early infrastructure etc. I have a problem with them providing direct to consumer subsidies to bribe customers to buy that tech, because new tech is invariably immature and expensive, and government shouldn't be in the business of trying to pick winners - they're terrible at that.
Unless, of course, it is hydrogen. Hydrogen without subsidies is dead. Let it die, stop flogging it.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
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WetEV
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Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:03 am

SageBrush wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:20 am
LeftieBiker wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:20 am
Have you folks ever considered saving this, er, discussion for the Underworld...? You're using up all that Interminableness now, when you could be smelling the roses...
STICKY !

I was actually thinking today that nothing says 2005 like arguing about the prospects of CHAdeMO and hydrogen

CHAdeMO had a chance in 2005. Hydrogen didn't.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
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SageBrush
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Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:54 am

WetEV wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:03 am
CHAdeMO had a chance in 2005. Hydrogen didn't.
Sure, but that didn't prevent GRA from arguing about it, and there were a couple other deluded people back then.
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-----
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