GRA
Posts: 12192
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: California retail H2 fuel stations

Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:39 pm

GCC:
7 California state legislators call on Energy Commission fully to allocate $20M annual for hydrogen stations

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/0 ... 25-h2.html

. . . In a letter to Commissioner Patty Monahan, the bipartisan group of lawmakers said the CEC did not allocate the funds in its recent updated “Clean Transportation Plan.” The failure to include the funds “undermines California’s ability to reach five million zero emission vehicles through the build out of 200 publicly available hydrogen fueling stations…risking equal and affordable access to clean transportation,” the legislators wrote.

While only a small share of zero emission vehicles on the road today, hydrogen electric vehicles must be a significant part of California’s clean transportation future. They offer quick refueling times at centrally located stations, long-range, and the ability to scale to larger-size applications. These advantages hold special promise to those without regular access to charging (such as the 46% of Californians living in multi-family dwellings and the 10% “super-commuter” workforce who travel more than 90 minutes per day, predominately from the Central Valley and Inland Empire).

Abandoning hydrogen electric vehicles at this critical juncture also guarantees higher electricity rates and higher housing costs as the need for charging infrastructure grows.


—Lawmakers’ letter. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

cwerdna
Posts: 11015
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: California retail H2 fuel stations

Wed Aug 26, 2020 12:15 pm

GRA wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:39 pm
GCC:
7 California state legislators call on Energy Commission fully to allocate $20M annual for hydrogen stations

https://www.greencarcongress.com/2020/0 ... 25-h2.html

. . . In a letter to Commissioner Patty Monahan, the bipartisan group of lawmakers said the CEC did not allocate the funds in its recent updated “Clean Transportation Plan.” The failure to include the funds “undermines California’s ability to reach five million zero emission vehicles through the build out of 200 publicly available hydrogen fueling stations…risking equal and affordable access to clean transportation,” the legislators wrote.

While only a small share of zero emission vehicles on the road today, hydrogen electric vehicles must be a significant part of California’s clean transportation future.
Seems like a waste of $.

If adding a DC FC costs $100K then each year, CA could add 200 DC FCs with that $.
rmay635703 wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:01 pm
I wonder if one of the $5000 auctioned 2016 Mirais could be converted to natural gas?
LOL! I guess you'd need to somehow add a nat gas reformer onto the Mirai to produce the H2 the fuel stack needs. Otherwise, the car is just a shell/glider and you'd need to replace all the H2 and EV bits with an ICEV that runs off of nat gas.

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Oilpan4
Posts: 1638
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:51 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2018
Leaf Number: 004270

Re: California retail H2 fuel stations

Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:06 pm

Should change the title to "California retail natural gas powered fuel stations".
trumpvirus
Is going to get you.

cwerdna
Posts: 11015
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: California retail H2 fuel stations

Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:15 pm

Oilpan4 wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:06 pm
Should change the title to "California retail natural gas powered fuel stations".
That would be confusing as we do have actual nat gas fueling stations, as well. Some are for retail use for cars like the Honda Civic GX.

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'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Oilpan4
Posts: 1638
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:51 pm
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Re: California retail H2 fuel stations

Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:16 pm

cwerdna wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:15 pm
Oilpan4 wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:06 pm
Should change the title to "California retail natural gas powered fuel stations".
That would be confusing as we do have actual nat gas fueling stations, as well. Some are for retail use for cars like the Honda Civic GX.
I bet people can actually afford and don't mind paying for their own CNG?
trumpvirus
Is going to get you.

cwerdna
Posts: 11015
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: California retail H2 fuel stations

Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:20 pm

Oilpan4 wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:16 pm
cwerdna wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:15 pm
Oilpan4 wrote:
Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:06 pm
Should change the title to "California retail natural gas powered fuel stations".
That would be confusing as we do have actual nat gas fueling stations, as well. Some are for retail use for cars like the Honda Civic GX.
I bet people can actually afford and don't mind paying for their own CNG?
Yep. One of my co-workers has a Civic GX. I've talked to a few drivers of them over the years.

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'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

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rmay635703
Posts: 558
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:43 pm

Re: California retail H2 fuel stations

Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:03 pm

Just when you think it’s dead

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OkvNBF ... vlYQw6GbdU


Also the Mirai has an identical battery & transaxle as the Lexus HS hybrid,

motor swap ?

cwerdna
Posts: 11015
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: California retail H2 fuel stations

Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:21 pm

rmay635703 wrote:
Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:03 pm
Also the Mirai has an identical battery & transaxle as the Lexus HS hybrid,

motor swap ?
Lexus HS hybrid is dead, at least for the US. IIRC, Mirai is based upon the same platform though.

No, I don't think you're right about the same transaxle. HS Hybrid used Toyota Hybrid Synergy Drive with two motor generators and a power-split device, which should've been similar or identical to the Camry Hybrid of the time. I long ago won a 7 day free rental of a 1st model year HS 250h.

Same NiMH battery? Yes, I could believe that or one shared with some other Toyota/Lexus NiMH-based hybrid.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

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Oilpan4
Posts: 1638
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:51 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2018
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Re: California retail H2 fuel stations

Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:46 am

Once you discover you are riding a dead horse the best course of action is to dismount.
trumpvirus
Is going to get you.

GRA
Posts: 12192
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: California retail H2 fuel stations

Fri Sep 18, 2020 9:59 pm

CARB's
2020 Annual Evaluation of Fuel Cell Electric Vehicle Deployment & Hydrogen Fuel Station Network Development


is available for download here:

https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/resources/docume ... evaluation


Owing to the supply disruption last year and Covid issues this year, there's only been a net gain of 1 open retail station in the past year, to 42. While 5 stations (4 new, 1 upgraded) have opened, 1 station closed because the property owner sold the site for development, and three others have been offline for upgrades and the timeline for re-opening is uncertain. In addition, 1 station developer (in Santa Nella) that had been awarded a grant decided not to proceed.

OTOH, the new stations that have opened have much greater capacity than the 1st Gen, as well as 2 or more dispensers. First Element has sixteen 1,200 kg stations planned, of which the first (4 disp.) in Fountain Valley has already opened. Shell has opened a couple of stations with 513 kg. cap., with several more on the way.

As of July 3rd there were five stations which had completed construction and were just waiting for final certification, permits etc.

It appears at this time that completion of up to 8 stations may be delayed from 2020 to 2021 due to Covid-related delays in permitting, construction and/or supply of equipment.

The new stations were all required to meet a 40% renewable H2 requirement vice 33% for the first gen. IIRR Fountain Valley is actually 100% renewable H2.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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