cwerdna
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non-plugin hybrid discussion

Sat Jul 13, 2019 1:18 am

I couldn't find a topic on this so I figured I'd start one.

I was surprised to learn that Toyota non-plugin hybrid sales are so strong in Europe.

Toyota Increased Hybrids Sales In Europe While PHEVs Remain 0.2%
https://insideevs.com/news/359555/toyot ... ope-phevs/
The Japanese manufacturer underlines that the majority of sales (51%) are now hybrids (275,300), which especially in the western part of the continent accounts for 60% of the brand's total sales. In the case of the Lexus brand, the average is 69% (99% in Western Europe).

As in the case of the first quarter, sales of Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid remain marginal at 1,100, which is barely over 0.2% of the overall volume.
In comparison, look at Toyota's US sales for the same period. There's a chart where hybrid sales listed.
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-release ... 79351.html

From rough numbers in the US for the same period, Toyota-branded hybrids make up under 9% of Toyota US sales CYTD and for Lexus, it's about 14.4%, if I did my math right.

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LeftieBiker
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Re: non-plugin hybrid discussion

Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:16 am

I think that it's a combination of high Toyota hybrid MPG, and favorite models being available as hybrids.
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SageBrush
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Re: non-plugin hybrid discussion

Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:46 am

High cost of fuel and the reduction in diesel subsidy in Europe are the main drivers.
The VW fiasco was a present to Toyota.
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rmay635703
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Re: non-plugin hybrid discussion

Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:46 pm

SageBrush wrote:High cost of fuel and the reduction in diesel subsidy in Europe are the main drivers.
The VW fiasco was a present to Toyota.
Yep post dieselgate knee jerk at its best

LeftieBiker
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Re: non-plugin hybrid discussion

Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:27 pm

Diesel engines for cars were a dead end at best and a scam at worst. Avoiding the vehicles that were scams isn't "knee jerk" - it's rational.
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SageBrush
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Re: non-plugin hybrid discussion

Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:03 pm

rmay635703 wrote:
SageBrush wrote:High cost of fuel and the reduction in diesel subsidy in Europe are the main drivers.
The VW fiasco was a present to Toyota.
Yep post dieselgate knee jerk at its best
I'm not sure what you mean. Diesel cars were always a terrible idea. They only caught on in Europe due to subsidized fuel.
I imagine the Toyota bump was in part due to anger at VW for the long running deception, and in part because Toyota makes excellent ICE cars and even better hybrids. At $6 - $8 a gallon for petrol, the hybrid premium is covered quickly. I think that some countries and localities continue to give hybrids a tax break based on CO2 tiers.

For example,
https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-tax-rate-tables
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
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Oilpan4
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Re: non-plugin hybrid discussion

Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:00 pm

Got our first hybrid and like it a lot.
Put the 17 inch factory wheels from the old hyundai on the new one, put the fuel economy tires on the old car that is getting sold to my wifes adopted son.
Only gave up about 2 mpg giving up the FE tires. Still gets 42 mpg on the highway not even trying and 44 in town.
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LeftieBiker
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Re: non-plugin hybrid discussion

Wed Jul 17, 2019 11:05 pm

Diesel cars were always a terrible idea. They only caught on in Europe due to subsidized fuel.

Don't forget all the lying in advertising about "clean diesel." Europeans tend to be more environmentally conscious than Americans, and many people (in both places) bought the lies about great fuel economy and low emissions. They thought they were doing something Good, or were at least not doing anything bad.
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kaiat
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Re: non-plugin hybrid discussion

Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:55 am

Diesels caught on in Europe because primarily of good fuel economy. Fuel is expensive in these parts of the world, and Europeans tend to drive smaller cars with smaller engines because of that. In the "old days" diesel cars were frugal and cheaper to run, but they were also sluggish and not very refined. When modern and efficient diesel-cars started to come out on the market, people turned to them as they were not only cheap to run, but also much more refined than earlier. A modern turbodiesel were more powerful than a comparable gasoline car, so that played a part too.

The main problem with diesel, aside of Dieselgate, is that modern diesel-engines do not like frequently short trips and subsequently clogs up. Particulate filters, injectors, turbos - yep, a lot of things that can go wrong. And they do. For longer trips - sure, they work fine. But many lives in urban areas and only do short distances for the most part. The engine doesn't heat up properly and stuff starts to happen from there. What you save in fuel costs, may well be lost in what you have to spend in maintenance costs.

Then you also had higher emissions of NOX and particulates. This became a fairly big problem in urban areas with a lot of traffic and there has been attempts from local authorities to try to reduce these.

People have generally become more aware too, and evaluate their car needs more than before. They just don't look at the low fuel consumption of a diesel-car, but also see if their driving pattern is suitable for a diesel-car.

Toyota have also been advertising hard for their "self-charging" hybrids. No need to plug in - they charge themselves magically!

My parents bought a RAV4 Hybrid in 2016 and they were looking at the Outlander PHEV as well. The Toyota-salesperson flat out told them that the Outlander could not work as a regular hybrid. You had to charge the battery at home, and when it was empty, the car would only be able to work as a regular ICE. It could not recharge while driving. My parents still bought the Toyota after I told them that this wasn't true (there was other reasons to why they prefered the Toyota). They are not that pleased with its fuel consumption and feel it is a bit thirsty, especially when comparing it to my Subaru Forester diesel (which is similar in size).

cwerdna
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Re: non-plugin hybrid discussion

Tue May 19, 2020 5:45 pm

Yay! Finally, there's a hybrid minivan from a Japanese automaker coming to the US market:

2021 Toyota Sienna Looks Wild and Comes Only as a Hybrid
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a3249 ... -revealed/

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