BrOtis
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2021 5:58 pm
Delivery Date: 04 Jul 2020
Leaf Number: 4068

2020 SV Plus rapidgate advice?

Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:48 pm

I recently purchased a 2020 Nissan Leaf SV plus and quickly realized the mistake I had made. I live in Arizona and at the time of purchase I had no idea what passive cooling was and the sales person certainly had no clue about anything involving the car. I knew more than he did.

Had I realized that the battery would suffer such harsh throttling about 90% of the year in Arizona due to the heat, I’d have bought an EV with an active cooling system. I suppose I’m fault here for not doing the proper amount of research but it feels like I got taken for a fool. Please don’t make me feel anymore stupid than I already do.

I could have gotten myself a model 3 for what I paid. And to make matters worse, my cars value somehow depreciated almost 25k in less than 5 months. It has less than 6k miles on it and is in immaculate condition. I know depreciation happens but more than half of what was financed in less than half a year?! How is this legal? That was a real kick In the pants. So I can’t get rid of the car because I’m not rich and I can’t afford to just take on 20k or more in negative equity.

At this point I’m desperate for some sort of help. I think Nissan should not be allowed to sell this car in this state honestly. Does anyone know of anything that will help me?

I tried going to Nissan and they basically told me sorry but you’re out of luck. Apparently the firmware update that help this issue isn’t available for the 2020 model for some unknown reason.

Is there anything I can do to help this? Could I buy a different battery pack with active cooling? Could I pay some custom EV shop to build something? I love the car other than the rapidgate issue. Please don’t respond with snarky comments about how I need to get a different car. I would if I could.

cwerdna
Posts: 11550
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: 2020 SV Plus rapidgate advice?

Tue Jan 05, 2021 12:39 am

    BrOtis wrote:
    Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:48 pm
    Is there anything I can do to help this? Could I buy a different battery pack with active cooling?
    I'm not aware of any existing for any Leaf of any capacity.

    About my only suggestion is to park the car in an air conditioned garage to cold soak for many hours at a time or one that's much cooler than outside ground level temp (e.g. underground or slightly underground garage like at my work https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic. ... nd#p563182). If you use Leaf Spy, you can see the battery temps and see how much or little each has an effect on battery temp along w/how much it rises from L2 and fast charging.

    The cooler/cooled garage will help on the first DC fast charge. Are you needing to DC FC often?

    As for depreciation and how much you paid, were you eligible for the full $7500 Federal tax credit (having any 2020 tax year tax liability)? Teslas have been ineligible for any Federal tax credit for awhile. And, nobody pays MSRP on Leafs, so those two combined should've made it less than the cheapest 3 at $37,690 + tax and license. $37690 comes from the current lowest price at https://www.tesla.com/model3/design#battery of $36,490 + $1200 dest and doc fee.

    Sorry I need to reply w/something snarky... but if needing to DC FC often (and quickly) when it's hot out is important to you, then you need to get a different car. I would point you to used Bolts as they're quite cheap but there's a stop sale right now so GM dealers may be unwilling/not legally able to sell you one (https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/chevy ... ost-576295). Yes, there have been folks who have hit that obstacle while others found GM dealers more than willing to sell those '17 and '18 Bolts (where the interim fix to limit charging to 90% is currently not enough to lift the stop sale).

    https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/batte ... ost-512173 lists that guy's observed thermal management behavior. 27 C = 80.6 F. 31 C = 87.8 F, 34 C = 93.2 F.

    And yes, I'm aware of how crazy how it is there. I've posted about a Phoenician friend's temps numerous times (e.g. https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic. ... nd#p307296) and am still FB friends w/him. I also went to Phoenix and Tucson in Sept 2019 when it was quite hot. :(

    '19 Bolt Premier
    '13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
    '13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

    Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

    alozzy
    Posts: 1736
    Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:25 pm
    Delivery Date: 18 Jan 2017
    Location: Vancouver, BC
    Contact: Website

    Re: 2020 SV Plus rapidgate advice?

    Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:00 am

    You must be doing an awful lot of driving. For my needs, the 225 miles of range of an SV Plus would mean I would only need to charge a couple of times a week.

    It's unfortunate that you picked the LEAF, just about any other EV would be better in your climate.

    One possibility that you might consider is reaching out to Dala (a member on these forums), as he creates custom code for the Muxsan CAN bridge devices.

    https://dalasevrepair.fi/can-bridges/
    Configurable quickcharge speed/temperature map, possibility to use pre-Rapidgate or Rapidgate settings. Even possible to do more aggressive charge-throttling to maximize battery life.
    You might be able to pick a speed/temp map that permits higher charging rates at high ambient temperatures, but realize that rapidgate exists for a reason. I doubt that Dala's code would allow it, but picking too high of a charging rate at high ambient temperatures could be dangerous.

    If Nissan ever found out about the mod, you would surely void your battery pack warranty.
    Last edited by alozzy on Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
    Vancouver, CA owner of a 2013 Ocean Blue SV + QC, purchased 01/2017 in WA
    Zencar 12/20/24/30A L1/L2 portable EVSE
    1-1/4" Curt #11396 hitch
    After market, DIY LED DRLs
    LeafSpy Pro + Konnwei KW902 ELM327 BT OBDII dongle
    Loving my first BEV :D

    cwerdna
    Posts: 11550
    Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
    Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
    Location: SF Bay Area, CA

    Re: 2020 SV Plus rapidgate advice?

    Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:04 am

    https://electrek.co/best-electric-vehicle-prices/ has some example new EV pricing, but those may all be wrong now since we're in 2021. If you do pursue a Bolt (new or used) or some other EV with CCS1 (SAE Combo) inlet, make sure it has the two extra holes for the 2 extra pins needed for DC FCing. See https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/how-t ... ost-577362. Bolts w/DC FCing have that orange flap covering the 2 holes.

    '19 Bolt Premier
    '13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
    '13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

    Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

    GerryAZ
    Gold Member
    Posts: 2764
    Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:47 pm
    Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
    Location: Phoenix, AZ

    Re: 2020 SV Plus rapidgate advice?

    Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:23 am

    BrOtis wrote:
    Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:48 pm
    I recently purchased a 2020 Nissan Leaf SV plus and quickly realized the mistake I had made. I live in Arizona and at the time of purchase I had no idea what passive cooling was and the sales person certainly had no clue about anything involving the car. I knew more than he did.

    Had I realized that the battery would suffer such harsh throttling about 90% of the year in Arizona due to the heat, I’d have bought an EV with an active cooling system. I suppose I’m fault here for not doing the proper amount of research but it feels like I got taken for a fool. Please don’t make me feel anymore stupid than I already do.

    I could have gotten myself a model 3 for what I paid. And to make matters worse, my cars value somehow depreciated almost 25k in less than 5 months. It has less than 6k miles on it and is in immaculate condition. I know depreciation happens but more than half of what was financed in less than half a year?! How is this legal? That was a real kick In the pants. So I can’t get rid of the car because I’m not rich and I can’t afford to just take on 20k or more in negative equity.

    At this point I’m desperate for some sort of help. I think Nissan should not be allowed to sell this car in this state honestly. Does anyone know of anything that will help me?

    I tried going to Nissan and they basically told me sorry but you’re out of luck. Apparently the firmware update that help this issue isn’t available for the 2020 model for some unknown reason.

    Is there anything I can do to help this? Could I buy a different battery pack with active cooling? Could I pay some custom EV shop to build something? I love the car other than the rapidgate issue. Please don’t respond with snarky comments about how I need to get a different car. I would if I could.
    Please explain your real issue with "rapid gate". With 6k miles in 5 months, your monthly mileage is less than mine and I have no issue charging my 2019 and had no issue charging my previous LEAFs. My car has only 9 DCQCs in almost 25k miles because it is much cheaper to charge at home. If you cannot charge at home and are dependent upon DCQC, then a Tesla would have been a better choice with their proprietary charging network. I used a DCQC on Sunday and there was no charge throttling issue--charge rate started at 43 kW, increased to 45 kW, and tapered to 35 kW just before the EVgo charger stopped after 46 minutes (I wish they would keep charging instead of automatically stopping after either 30 or 45 minutes). The SOC (state of charge) was 21% before charging and 81% after the EVgo charger stopped. During previous DCQC sessions I have seen EVgo chargers cut back to 18 kW after 15 minutes (probably to avoid excessive 15-minute power demand charges which are triggered above 20 kW), but that is not the fault of the car.

    I am not sure how you are determining depreciation, but EV's that qualify for the Federal $7,500 tax credit do take a large depreciation hit as soon as you drive off the lot because a new one qualifies for the credit while a used one does not even if the original purchaser is not able to use the credit.

    There are no alternative battery packs available (plus you would lose the Nissan 8-year, 100,000-mile battery warranty, 5-year, 60,000-mile EV system and powertrain warranty, and 3-year, 36,000-mile bumper-to-bumper warranty if you modify the car) and the costs for modifications, if available, would exceed the losses you would incur by just selling the car.

    Personally, I am glad that Nissan sells EV's in Arizona because the LEAF fits my daily driver needs very well.
    Gerry
    Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
    Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015; traded 8/10/2019 at 82,436 miles
    White LEAF 2019 SL Plus purchased 8/10/2019

    SageBrush
    Posts: 5606
    Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
    Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
    Location: NM

    Re: 2020 SV Plus rapidgate advice?

    Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:16 am

    OP: How much of a choice do you have in whether to DC charge ?

    ----
    As an aside, as Chief LEAF critic in non-cool climates, I am not surprised at your negative opinions and I expect them to get worse as battery degradation becomes apparent. That said, some of your OP reads as hyperbole, or perhaps trolling. E.g., the 25k depreciation is hard to accept. How much did you pay for the car before TTL and tax credits ?
    2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
    Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
    Two years in Colorado, now in NM
    03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
    11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
    09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
    -----
    2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

    webeleafowners
    Posts: 1176
    Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:37 pm
    Delivery Date: 06 Oct 2015
    Location: Okanagan Valley British Columbia

    Re: 2020 SV Plus rapidgate advice?

    Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:00 am

    For what it’s worth I think you have a great car, and that is coming from a Very happy Tesla model 3 owner. Leafs do what they do very well and the hatch back is great. Not to mention a very good looking car in my opinion. Miss my leaf. We retired and didn’t need two cars so we sold it.

    But I’m sure a ton of people here want yo know. What kind of driving conditions are you using it under. You have so few miles but you need to fast charge. Are the only trips you make 500 miles? Most people rarely fast charge. I know Tesla owners who have never been to a fast charger in 3 years. Do you have charging at home?

    Soooo curious on this. Please let us know.

    Cheers.
    2020 Model 3 Tesla. AWD with FSD. Deep metallic blue. Our daily driver.
    2016 Nissan Leaf SV 30KWh Culis Red. Sold. Was my daily driver. Loved that car.
    EV only Family...well except for the big diesel motorhome. :shock:

    WetEV
    Posts: 4130
    Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
    Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
    Location: Near Seattle, WA

    Re: 2020 SV Plus rapidgate advice?

    Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:46 am

    webeleafowners wrote:
    Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:00 am
    You have so few miles but you need to fast charge. Are the only trips you make 500 miles? Most people rarely fast charge. I know Tesla owners who have never been to a fast charger in 3 years. Do you have charging at home?
    If the OP doesn't or can't charge at home, that might explain it. Fast charging only wouldn't be very nice anyplace.
    WetEV
    #49
    Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
    2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
    2014 Leaf SL Red
    2019 eTron Blue

    webeleafowners
    Posts: 1176
    Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2015 5:37 pm
    Delivery Date: 06 Oct 2015
    Location: Okanagan Valley British Columbia

    Re: 2020 SV Plus rapidgate advice?

    Tue Jan 05, 2021 9:25 am

    Yah. That’s the only thing I can think of. Hope he gets it sorted out. Such a nice car.
    2020 Model 3 Tesla. AWD with FSD. Deep metallic blue. Our daily driver.
    2016 Nissan Leaf SV 30KWh Culis Red. Sold. Was my daily driver. Loved that car.
    EV only Family...well except for the big diesel motorhome. :shock:

    BrOtis
    Posts: 6
    Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2021 5:58 pm
    Delivery Date: 04 Jul 2020
    Leaf Number: 4068

    Re: 2020 SV Plus rapidgate advice?

    Tue Jan 05, 2021 9:38 am

    GerryAZ wrote:
    Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:23 am
    BrOtis wrote:
    Mon Jan 04, 2021 9:48 pm
    I recently purchased a 2020 Nissan Leaf SV plus and quickly realized the mistake I had made. I live in Arizona and at the time of purchase I had no idea what passive cooling was and the sales person certainly had no clue about anything involving the car. I knew more than he did.

    Had I realized that the battery would suffer such harsh throttling about 90% of the year in Arizona due to the heat, I’d have bought an EV with an active cooling system. I suppose I’m fault here for not doing the proper amount of research but it feels like I got taken for a fool. Please don’t make me feel anymore stupid than I already do.

    I could have gotten myself a model 3 for what I paid. And to make matters worse, my cars value somehow depreciated almost 25k in less than 5 months. It has less than 6k miles on it and is in immaculate condition. I know depreciation happens but more than half of what was financed in less than half a year?! How is this legal? That was a real kick In the pants. So I can’t get rid of the car because I’m not rich and I can’t afford to just take on 20k or more in negative equity.

    At this point I’m desperate for some sort of help. I think Nissan should not be allowed to sell this car in this state honestly. Does anyone know of anything that will help me?

    I tried going to Nissan and they basically told me sorry but you’re out of luck. Apparently the firmware update that help this issue isn’t available for the 2020 model for some unknown reason.

    Is there anything I can do to help this? Could I buy a different battery pack with active cooling? Could I pay some custom EV shop to build something? I love the car other than the rapidgate issue. Please don’t respond with snarky comments about how I need to get a different car. I would if I could.
    Please explain your real issue with "rapid gate". With 6k miles in 5 months, your monthly mileage is less than mine and I have no issue charging my 2019 and had no issue charging my previous LEAFs. My car has only 9 DCQCs in almost 25k miles because it is much cheaper to charge at home. If you cannot charge at home and are dependent upon DCQC, then a Tesla would have been a better choice with their proprietary charging network. I used a DCQC on Sunday and there was no charge throttling issue--charge rate started at 43 kW, increased to 45 kW, and tapered to 35 kW just before the EVgo charger stopped after 46 minutes (I wish they would keep charging instead of automatically stopping after either 30 or 45 minutes). The SOC (state of charge) was 21% before charging and 81% after the EVgo charger stopped. During previous DCQC sessions I have seen EVgo chargers cut back to 18 kW after 15 minutes (probably to avoid excessive 15-minute power demand charges which are triggered above 20 kW), but that is not the fault of the car.

    I am not sure how you are determining depreciation, but EV's that qualify for the Federal $7,500 tax credit do take a large depreciation hit as soon as you drive off the lot because a new one qualifies for the credit while a used one does not even if the original purchaser is not able to use the credit.

    There are no alternative battery packs available (plus you would lose the Nissan 8-year, 100,000-mile battery warranty, 5-year, 60,000-mile EV system and powertrain warranty, and 3-year, 36,000-mile bumper-to-bumper warranty if you modify the car) and the costs for modifications, if available, would exceed the losses you would incur by just selling the car.

    Personally, I am glad that Nissan sells EV's in Arizona because the LEAF fits my daily driver needs very well.

    So daily use isn’t an issue. But I have friends that I would like to visit in San Diego. And in Vegas. I was assured this wouldn’t be an issue with the Leaf and to be fair, I can drive there it just takes quadruple the amount of time I thought it would. I tried to go from Phoenix to San Diego in it twice, once when it was super hot out and once recently. I assumed the first time I went it took so long due to the heat outside. It took 14 hours. The second time I thought I wouldn’t have this issue. Still took me 12 and half hours. And I never went over 65 mph. Kept on eco too. And going to Vegas isn’t possible at all. If it is then I’m not aware of how. I’m angry with myself for making the mistake of not fully understanding this car before buying. That might have come off in my tone and that’s my bad for sure.

    When I purchased the car, KBB said what I was paying for a new leaf was accurate. But now, if I check KBB it says it’s only worth have of what I paid. After taxes and fees it came out to right at 46k amount financed. They offered me 18k for it. Even if you account for the 7500 dollar tax credit, which makes no sense to me because you can’t even claim all of it if you don’t have enough liability, that’s still about 20k of upside negative equity. Don’t get wrong I know that a cars value depreciates the moment you drive it off the lot. I’ve bought several new cars and that’s usually about a 5k depreciation within the first year. That’s about average according to every person I know. And even the highest I’ve seen was 10k in a year. 20 in 5 months? Come on. You have to admit that’s not normal.

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