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Jimmydreams
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Re: Why is the 240V charging station hardwired ? The answer is..

Tue May 11, 2010 9:24 am

[quote="mitch672Yes, and I suppose it's totally out of the question to replace the 240V 50A dryer outlet every 2 or 3 years, at a cost of what? $40 for the outlet and even paying an electrician labor (most could shutoff the breaker and change it on their own), what another $100 maybe. Nope, this is pure BS.[/quote]

From a legal and customer satisfaction point of view, it IS out of the question. You and I won't bitch about it, but someone somewhere would file a lawsuit over either the A) fire that occured because they had an open container of gasoline directly under the plug (for example) or B) lost their job because the car failed to charge due to the plug falling out and they couldn't make it to work on time.

We have to remember, the people on this forum are the minority when it comes to the target audience. Nissan has to think about the lead footed drivers, the ones who won't check the distance vs available charge before turning the key, the ones who are (and want to remain) clueless. For THOSE people, yes, the dryer outlet is out of the question.

Kinda sad, isn't it?
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Re: Why is the 240V charging station hardwired ? The answer is..

Tue May 11, 2010 9:35 am

No "regular" consumer is going to buy a Leaf in the first few years, it's only going to be "early adopters" for a while. Nissan's can only make 50,000/year for the first 2 years, until the Tennesee plant comes online sometime in 2012. I do not expect to see a flood of orders on May15th, when ordering is opened up to the general public. I would be surprised to see more than another %10-20 signup (700 to 1400 more customers)
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evnow
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Re: Why is the 240V charging station hardwired ? The answer is..

Tue May 11, 2010 9:54 am

Jimmydreams wrote: We have to remember, the people on this forum are the minority when it comes to the target audience. Nissan has to think about the lead footed drivers, the ones who won't check the distance vs available charge before turning the key, the ones who are (and want to remain) clueless. For THOSE people, yes, the dryer outlet is out of the question.

Kinda sad, isn't it?
Actually, Nissan is out of the equation here. Code is designed by a committee at the federal level and most states adopt the code. I guess Nissan can lobby the committee - it probably will in coming years. But as of now - code is what it is. Nissan and other car makers have to just follow it.
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garygid
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Re: Why is the 240V charging station hardwired ? The answer is..

Tue May 11, 2010 10:03 am

The NEC appears to allow use of a not hard-wired 240v ESVE in indoor cases, as long as two specific "disconnect" detection/protection/handling features are included.

Also, most dryer plugs are only 30-amp breakers, suitable for only 24-amp "continuous" use.

Range/Oven circuits often have a 50-amp breaker, suitable for 40-amp "continuous" use.

The typical older-style dryer plug does not include a "ground", only 2 hot and one neutral, so it is not directly suitable. The newer (last 14 years) dryer plug includes the neutral (apparently not used by the ESVE) and a ground (required by the ESVE).
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garygid
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Re: Why is the 240V charging station hardwired ? The answer is..

Tue May 11, 2010 10:06 am

It is expected that the 15-amp 240v (3.3kW) charger in the Leaf will soon be upgraded to 6.6 kW (30 amps, requiring a dual 40-amp breaker).
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Re: Why is the 240V charging station hardwired ? The answer is..

Tue May 11, 2010 10:12 am

garygid wrote:The NEC appears to allow use of a not hard-wired 240v ESVE in indoor cases, as long as two specific "disconnect" detection/protection/handling features are included.
Do you have the exact quote ?

Should the "disconnect" detection/protection/handling be in the plug ?
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garygid
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Re: Why is the 240V charging station hardwired ? The answer is..

Tue May 11, 2010 10:22 am

Google NEC article 625.

In the 1999 version (the only one I could find on-line), Section 625-13 allows 120v and "some other".

625-13 requires 625-18 (interlock), -19 (strain disconnect), and -29 (indoor).
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PluginRecharge
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Re: Why is the 240V charging station hardwired ? The answer is..

Thu Jun 17, 2010 8:40 am

It's a safety issue.

Ever tried to unplug your dryer from the outlet? It's not easy like a 110v plug.

Now lets assume that you get a 220v plugset like you can get for the Tesla...but it now has a J1772 on the car end. Then assume your wife/daughter plugged into a weatherized outside 220v outlet...and it's raining. Imagine those smaller fingers trying to get a fast grip on the plug because they're getting wet...and they accidentally touch one of the blades in the process. 220v + rain = Zap = never touch it again (once they get off the ground).

With ~25 manufacturers getting in the game to make Level 2 chargers (http://www.pluginrecharge.com/p/evse-vendors.html), the prices will melt once quantity starts ramping...so the high price today is mostly an early adopter "fee".

Given that probably everyone on this board is an early adopter, you know all about this (Damn, the 60" Sony LCD monitor I bought last month is on sale for 30% off! Bastards!)

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EVDRIVER
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Re: Why is the 240V charging station hardwired ? The answer is..

Thu Jun 17, 2010 8:50 am

mitch672 wrote:
Jimmydreams wrote:
EVDRIVER wrote:Complete BS about the plug being the reason. So the plug that goes into the car can be used repeatedly and the laws of physics prevent the same type of setup from being on the wall.
I agree, the reason is BS, but at least the plug going into the car will have a 'trigger-latch' designed to hold it in should the fit begin to widen due to misuse. Dryer plugs will fall out if the fit starts loosening.
Yes, and I suppose it's totally out of the question to replace the 240V 50A dryer outlet every 2 or 3 years, at a cost of what? $40 for the outlet and even paying an electrician labor (most could shutoff the breaker and change it on their own), what another $100 maybe. Nope, this is pure BS.

This is just uniformed reporting. I have been using these outlets with my EVs for six years with no issue charging at 240 @ 40A or more. Do Europeans have these boxes in their garages for their extension cords? No, and I bet they leave them plugged in at times as well. The basis is to keep a live cord off the ground, this makes sense but the cost for this box is too high and I expect in time they will be under a few hundred dollars, made in China of course. You are paying for lack of competition, development, limited production, and UL cert.

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Re: Why is the 240V charging station hardwired ? The answer is..

Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:42 am

It seems that none of the 25 listed vendors offer a product andva price where one can buy an uninstalled EVSE for the USA home.

But, maybe I missed something.
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