A Bolt doesn't have 150 miles of No Worries Range in Hawaii
Cite, please. Running the A/C on a car with a 220+ EPA range, on roads that largely preclude high speeds, doesn't take 70+ miles off the range.
A Bolt doesn't have 150 miles of No Worries Range in Hawaii
LeftieBiker said:Oils4AsphaultOnly said:Great post!
However, can I convince you to change this line:
"If you need 200 or more miles of year round range, then an EV is not presently a good choice for you."
To this:
"If you need 200 or more miles of year round range, then you should review the available charging options and charging times along your travel routes first before considering an EV."
I'm not going to suggest to anyone that in order to travel as far as they need to go, they will always have to charge en route. Not with a 40kwh Leaf. Sorry. I will add "regularly."
LeftieBiker said:A Bolt doesn't have 150 miles of No Worries Range in Hawaii
Cite, please. Running the A/C on a car with a 220+ EPA range, on roads that largely preclude high speeds, doesn't take 70+ miles off the range.
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:For a gas vehicle, a 200-mile daily commute would also require a fill-up every 2 or 3 days, that would be no different than stopping by a fast charger for 15-20 minutes on the leg back home (only need enough charge to make it home, not a second 200-mile return trip). Telling these drivers that they should stick with their hybrids is doing them a disservice without considering what their options are.
WetEV said:Oils4AsphaultOnly said:For a gas vehicle, a 200-mile daily commute would also require a fill-up every 2 or 3 days, that would be no different than stopping by a fast charger for 15-20 minutes on the leg back home (only need enough charge to make it home, not a second 200-mile return trip). Telling these drivers that they should stick with their hybrids is doing them a disservice without considering what their options are.
Really. I take trips beyond range. I even commuted beyond range for a few weeks. With the current state of public charging, I wouldn't recommend it.
There is and was one DCQC available that is required to make the trip to Seattle. Fallback is and was L2s. I've never had the DCQC down, but it has been down.
I've waited over an hour just once because people ahead of me. Think about this: late and you want to get home. But you are watching someone else's car charge. So that another car can charge. So that your car can charge... So you can get home, more than an hour later than planned.
WetEV said:LeftieBiker said:A Bolt doesn't have 150 miles of No Worries Range in Hawaii
Cite, please. Running the A/C on a car with a 220+ EPA range, on roads that largely preclude high speeds, doesn't take 70+ miles off the range.
Warranty is 60% capacity. Need a cite for that?
https://my.chevrolet.com/content/dam/gmownercenter/gmna/dynamic/manuals/2017/Chevrolet/BOLT%20EV/Owner's%20Manual.pdf
Math. Really need a cite? Ok.
https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Calculator
238 mile range *0.6 = 142 miles.
No reserve allowance, and getting home on turtle wouldn't be fun.
No weather allowance. Wind, rain, snow and cold all happen.
Not cite for these.
WetEV said:LeftieBiker said:A Bolt doesn't have 150 miles of No Worries Range in Hawaii
Cite, please. Running the A/C on a car with a 220+ EPA range, on roads that largely preclude high speeds, doesn't take 70+ miles off the range.
Warranty is 60% capacity. Need a cite for that?
https://my.chevrolet.com/content/dam/gmownercenter/gmna/dynamic/manuals/2017/Chevrolet/BOLT%20EV/Owner's%20Manual.pdf
Math. Really need a cite? Ok.
https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Calculator
238 mile range *0.6 = 142 miles.
No reserve allowance, and getting home on turtle wouldn't be fun.
No weather allowance. Wind, rain, snow and cold all happen.
Not cite for these.
I'd like to see a number put on 'acceptable,' and I think it worth mention that Nissan goes by capacity bars, a meter no one outside the company completely understands and that may be changed by Nissan if they see fit to do so.From Spring of 2013 through 2015(when the more heat-resistant “Lizard” pack was introduced), battery degradation became a serious issue mainly for Leaf drivers in Hot local and regional climates, with range loss elsewhere being acceptable.
Later, as the cars lost that new car gleam (and sometimes even sooner) Leaf drivers in warmer climates began to discover that their cars' battery packs were degrading (losing capacity) at an alarming rate, as indicated both by the capacity “gauge” on the dashboard and by actual available driving range. The capacity bar display, which consists of 12 tiny capacity bars adjacent to the 12 much larger charge level bars, began to show missing capacity as soon as a few months after purchase in hotter states like Arizona, but then also began to show missing capacity bars in states like California, Florida, New Mexico...
I do not, but I think the discussion should be tabled since we are not trying to foist our personal version of 'acceptable' on a new owner.LeftieBiker said:I
I think that keeping 12 bars for at least 3 years is regarded by most Leaf drivers as "acceptable."
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:You're doing this commute with a leaf right? And I can see that not working. But how does that translate to being applicable to a model 3?
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:That's a theoretical loss. How about an actual one (ventura, CA): https://insideevs.com/chevrolet-bolt-battery-lost-capacity-70000-miles/
So should still have 200 mile range after 150k miles.
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:Having an Active TMS really helps slow down battery degradation.
SageBrush said:We have the Tesla in my Sig. It is a fine car for trips. I often use it to travel 250 miles each way in a 4 season climate and have charged en-route twice or so. Both times I started the trip will less than a fully charged battery.
WetEV said:Oils4AsphaultOnly said:That's a theoretical loss. How about an actual one (ventura, CA): https://insideevs.com/chevrolet-bolt-battery-lost-capacity-70000-miles/
So should still have 200 mile range after 150k miles.
The singular of data isn't anecdote. Sure, some will do very well. I own a 2014 LEAF that has done very well. So? Have a large enough sample to be meaningful? Have you looked for people with early capacity loss? There are such, you should know. Or you can learn, fairly quickly.
http://www.mychevybolt.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8404
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:Having an Active TMS really helps slow down battery degradation.
Not in wild dreams, in Yukon. Not at all, near Seattle where I live. Perhaps a little in the Bay area. More in LA. Probably enough to pay for the extra stuff and risk in Phoenix. Even more so in Lake Havasu City. Yes, a lot, in Death Valley.
WetEV said:Oils4AsphaultOnly said:You're doing this commute with a leaf right? And I can see that not working. But how does that translate to being applicable to a model 3?
Yes, in a LEAF 2014, 159 miles round trip, left home with full charge, DCQC on the way, workplace L2 to full, DCQC on the way home. As a temporary plan, with a known end date, it worked. For a lifestyle, not for me. I wouldn't recommend it. In fact, run away screaming if someone suggests it for more than a few weeks.
If I got to work early, I could use workplace charging. Before 8AM, I could easily get a charge and be ready for the long trek home that afternoon. If not, add a DCQC. Workplace L2 had/has a waitlist, sometimes waitlist was full before 10AM. Relying on workplace charging? Maybe if you are an early bird. Nearly 100% utilization.
Few people have the 100 plus mile commuting round trip to not be able to do with home charging and a Tesla Model 3, the Chevy Bolt or a Nissan LEAF E+. A few sales types, a few people with really remote houses, and so on. And at a hundred miles plus a day, leasing had better allow for 25,000+ miles a year, a high mileage lease, which sales types already know about.
LeftieBiker said:So I should cite a range of 40 miles for the 40kwh Leaf because that's what one down in capacity to just above warranty replacement will get in frigid weather?
LeftieBiker said:The cite I requested, BTW, was for a Bolt only getting less than 150 miles of range in Hawaii. The lower speed driving should cancel out most of the A/C use, so it seems you're being a bit silly...
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:The lack of reported battery issues is what I'm relying on.
Oils4AsphaultOnly said:That posting you cited is indicative of a cell issue that should be covered by warranty, not actual degradation of the pack as designed. Mary Barra recently claimed that GM has yet to replace a single Volt nor Bolt battery pack due to excessive degradation.
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