cwerdna
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Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:17 pm

^^^
Maybe. I only plan to use paid public charging if I need to. I likely wouldn't want to pull down much paid juice for "fun", esp. if not needed or if more expensive than charging at home.

I still have yet to pay a single cent for any public or workplace charging.

Electrify America's app shows 2 "coming soon" sites near where typically go and one not that far from work. The 62.5 kW ChargePoint DC FC that JeffN used to film his video (https://electricrevs.com/2018/07/17/wat ... -to-55-kw/) is actually not that out of the way for me.

Kinda OT, I watched https://insideevs.com/news/341527/weber ... nt-system/ (WeberAuto Examines The Chevy Bolt EV's Battery Coolant System) last night at high speed. Was interesting. He actually looks at the 3 coolant loops (electronics, battery and cabin heater) but didn't go into cooling plates and all inside the pack, which is another video.

It looks like my battery thermal management ran today for awhile after charging was done at work. I set my charge limiter to 80% and normally, if set to 95% or lower, once it hits the level, the power level I see on ChargePoint abruptly drops to 0 from about 6 kW (208 volts at work). Today, for the first time, I saw a draw of ~1.5 kW for 20 minutes then the power level dropped to 1 kW for the next 5 minutes, before dropping to 0. It was a crazy hot day today, so it was probably at least 85 to 95 F in the parking structure at work at that time.

OT: I'm kinda watching the video at https://youtu.be/pby9JMmYC78 at 1.25x playback speed where News Coloumb decides (for the heck of it) to make a 500 road trip in his Bolt intentionally limiting his DC FC sessions to 15 minutes, to show how much infrastructure there is in CA and how much redundancy there is. He started somewhere in So Cal (I think that's where he lives) and ended up in Sacramento. At 2:36, I see a Newhall Ranch Rd. sign (in Valencia, CA). Seems like power levels are still pretty high and he's adding 10 to 13 kWh per each 15 minute session, depending on charger "strength". At 12:10, you can see a 43.528 kW charge rate when he ended.

I just noticed his Bolt is at 91K miles. I don't recall when he bought his but Bolt didn't ship until mid-Dec 2016.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

GRA
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:08 pm

IEVS:
Deep Discounts On Chevy Bolt - Up To $11,500 Off MSRP
https://insideevs.com/features/354296/d ... hevy-bolt/
Chevrolet didn't change the $36,620 MSRP of the Chevrolet Bolt EV in April when the eligible federal tax credit decreased from $7,500 to $3,750, but it's doesn't mean that you can't buy it way cheaper.

According to input from our reader, the discounts from MSRP now go beyond $8,000 or $9,000 to as much as $10,500 in the case of the base LT trim and $11,500 in the case of the higher trim Premier.

It would lower the effective price:
  • Bolt EV LT: from $37,495 (with $875 D&H) to $26,995 and $23,245 after deducting federal tax credit.
    Bolt EV Premier: from $41,895 (with $875 D&H) to $30,395 and $26,645 after deducting federal tax credit.
The other option is 0% APR for up to 72 months. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

cwerdna
Posts: 9728
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
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Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Sun Jun 16, 2019 3:41 am

Thanks to a thread I stumbled across over at a Bolt forum, I came across these interesting DC FCing graphs:
https://www.chevybolt.org/forum/82-char ... -dcfc.html

He links to his blog entry at http://tool-box.info/blog/archives/2783 ... tions.html.

Looks like the TMS kicked in once battery temps got to 34 C (93.2 F) and they soon began dropping...

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

GRA
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:00 pm

Interesting graphs. If I'm reading them correctly, it took 1:05 to go from 10% -> 80% SoC, and then 0:50 to go from 80 -> 100% SoC. Not my idea of a quick charge, although obviously better than L2.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

cwerdna
Posts: 9728
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:30 am

^^^
Obviously, given sufficient quick chargers on your route, it's best to run to a fairly low SoC and stop charging once you feel charging is too slow (say at the 55% mark or a bit below 70%) then move on. On a road trip, it's silly to go to 100% unless there isn't another high powered DC FC within range, esp. if you're being charged by time.

If the DC FC doesn't show you the rate (some don't), you can always see charging rate on the right side of the dash if you power it up while charging (both AC and DC). It's the same numbers and UI as the power consumption/regen indicator when driving.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

DaveinOlyWA
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:17 am

+1. It is really only my desire to have "about" two hours of driving time (~ 100 miles) when I leave a station anyway. With the knee on my 40 around 60-63%, I rarely charge past 30 KW on the first stint, 25 on future stints. In all my trips, I find personal needs override the mornings more often than what the car needs. Coffee habit, no doubt.

But a 40 kwh pack is just short of that goal. It works for anything under 250 miles if starting with a full charge but that generally leaves me needing to stop while still around 50% SOC which is not ideal. So leaving home less than full sounds a bit counterintuitive but I do this frequently and it works well. Right now, I have a 30 min charge limit for all but Webasto so that definitely plays a part. Other than meals, most of my stops only go 20ish mins anyway.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
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GRA
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:06 pm

cwerdna wrote:^^^
Obviously, given sufficient quick chargers on your route, it's best to run to a fairly low SoC and stop charging once you feel charging is too slow (say at the 55% mark or a bit below 70%) then move on. On a road trip, it's silly to go to 100% unless there isn't another high powered DC FC within range, esp. if you're being charged by time.

If the DC FC doesn't show you the rate (some don't), you can always see charging rate on the right side of the dash if you power it up while charging (both AC and DC). It's the same numbers and UI as the power consumption/regen indicator when driving.
For anyone trying to take serious road trips, being limited to any % below 80% is simply ridiculous. After all, the Bolt only has a Hwy EPA range of 217 miles, so 80% of that is 173.6, minus 30 miles reserve is 143.6, minus allowances for conditions etc. So, you're talking about a maximum of say 120-140 miles in two hours (or less, given speeds in the west), followed by about an hour of charging in order to repeat it. That's an average of under 50 mph.

Of course, assuming you leave from home you can start at 90% if you want to be good to your battery, or 100% if you don't care and go a bit farther the first leg, but you (or at least I) am still forced to stop for much longer than I have any desire to do for a weekend, let alone a week-long trip. Not having a sack of coffee beans on my back, and with my prostate and bladder in good shape I don't need to stop that often, and 4-5 hours until needing to stop is the norm for me. I may stop at shorter intervals, often to fill up with cheaper gas, but that's optional and takes just a fraction of the time. To me, anything over 30 minutes (<15 desired) to 80% is unacceptable, unless/until I can go for four hours with a reserve at Hwy speeds in between QCs.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

LeftieBiker
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:33 pm

There is no evidence that starting a trip with 100% charge is detrimental to the battery, provided that charging has just ended.
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:45 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:There is no evidence that starting a trip with 100% charge is detrimental to the battery, provided that charging has just ended.
Are you saying that specifically in relation to the Bolt, or BEVs generally? Here's what may be the highest mileage BEV in the world, a Model S used for an LA-Las Vegas shuttle:
The first battery pack replacement happened after 194,000 miles. At that time, the battery pack energy capacity degradation was at ~6%, which is reasonable, but Tesla found a problem due to Tesloop’s frequent Supercharging.

Here’s the reason Tesla gave for the battery replacement:

Found internal imbalance in HV battery due to consistent supercharging to 100% from a low state of charge (SOC) without any rest periods in between. HV battery has been approved to be replaced. Also recommend that customer does not Supercharge on a regular basis and does not charge to 100% on a regular basis. We also recommend that the customer use scheduled charging to start charge 3 hours after end of drive at low SOC.

Tesloop says that it was supercharging the car multiple times a day and at 95 to 100% state-of-charge – two things that Tesla doesn’t recommend for the health of the battery pack. . . .

That indicates that starting a trip (leg) immediately after charging to 100% is in fact not good for the battery. I realize that you're talking about the beginning of a trip rather than multiple charges to that level, but it does specifically say that Tesla doesn't recommend charging regularly to 100%. I don't know of any BEV manufacturer that does say it's okay (unless they've seriously over-sized the battery and limited usable capacity) .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

LeftieBiker
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt - 60 kWh, 238 mi, < 7s 0-60

Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:34 pm

The not charging to 100% appears to be something that Tesla threw in for good measure. The primary culprit there was "supercharging" hot packs, not charging to 100% before a trip. The same thing would apply to QCing a Leaf with a hot pack right before a trip. The general rules for preserving lithium batteries apply to Leafs, Teslas, Bolts, etc.
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