Leaf needed to Jumpstart frequently

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I don't believe that the lower internal resistance would materially affect charge rate. I think that the dramatic difference in charge time reflects the AGM's low self discharge rate. In other vehicles, relatively high self discharge in non-AGM batteries would be hidden by adequate recharging.

But I'm certainly willing to listen to other theories.
 
coulomb said:
I don't believe that the lower internal resistance would materially affect charge rate. I think that the dramatic difference in charge time reflects the AGM's low self discharge rate. In other vehicles, relatively high self discharge in non-AGM batteries would be hidden by adequate recharging.

But I'm certainly willing to listen to other theories.
Click to expand...

Well my theory would be that with a liquid electrolyte part of the charging process is limited by diffusion rates. In an AGM the concentrated electrolyte is held in a thin glass mat in direct contact with the plates. I think the concentration and thinness of the AGM electrolyte would account for the lower resistance and more effective diffusion especially at lower SOC% where a flooded battery's electrolyte gets pretty weak. And unlike a Lithium battery, lead-acid charge involves chemical reaction. And chemical reaction speed is dependent on the concentration of the reactants. More concentrated H2SO4 in the AGM. Lol, I'll see if I can find anything to back that up :p
 
My 2011 and 2015 were frequently parked unplugged at 50% to 70% SOC for up to 4 weeks at a time without incident (except once when I left Bluetooth adapter plugged in to OBDII port and Android device running LEAF Spy on the seat--12V battery in 2011 was dead when I returned after only 6 days). Also 2015 drained 12-volt
battery while parked over weekend when early 3G TCU locked up (issue was permanently resolved when dealer replaced TCU with later version). Longest so far for 2019 has been 2 weeks at the airport. I have never connected an external 12-vo!t charger to any of my LEAFs (DC-DC converter in each Leaf keeps or kept the 12-volt battery charged with my driving/charging/parking use patterns). I jump-started the cars on the rare occasions when I returned to dead battery and let DC-DC converter charge battery while driving and charging.
 
GerryAZ said:
My 2011 and 2015 were frequently parked unplugged at 50% to 70% SOC for up to 4 weeks at a time without incident (except once when I left Bluetooth adapter plugged in to OBDII port and Android device running LEAF Spy on the seat--12V battery in 2011 was dead when I returned after only 6 days). Also 2015 drained 12-volt
battery while parked over weekend when early 3G TCU locked up (issue was permanently resolved when dealer replaced TCU with later version). Longest so far for 2019 has been 2 weeks at the airport. I have never connected an external 12-vo!t charger to any of my LEAFs (DC-DC converter in each Leaf keeps or kept the 12-volt battery charged with my driving/charging/parking use patterns). I jump-started the cars on the rare occasions when I returned to dead battery and let DC-DC converter charge battery while driving and charging.
Click to expand...

This is a bit confusing. Are the "rare occasions when I returned to dead battery" incidents the ones referenced above? I guess you're saying the "rare occasions" of dead battery didn't ruin the battery?

Our 2013 Ford CMax (96k miles) is about to have it's 4th battery replacement, as the 3rd OEM Ford replacement battery lasted 21 months. Full warranty replacement, but a royal PIA because of the inconvenience. I just purchased a $100 Schumacher "Power Pack" lithium jump starter, and will keep it in the car. Ridiculous that Ford has yet to figure out how to prevent random parasitic drain in their CMax/Fusion hybrids.

We've NEVER had an issue (of any kind!!!) with our 2014 Toyota Avalon Hybrid, now at 101k miles. Still love the car, a solid 41mpg on the highway, although the squooshy (is that a word?) ride can get a little annoying (I spent 35 years driving VW/Audis...haha)

Thanks all for the interesting thread. I always learn something here. :D
 
gncndad said:
GerryAZ said:
My 2011 and 2015 were frequently parked unplugged at 50% to 70% SOC for up to 4 weeks at a time without incident (except once when I left Bluetooth adapter plugged in to OBDII port and Android device running LEAF Spy on the seat--12V battery in 2011 was dead when I returned after only 6 days). Also 2015 drained 12-volt
battery while parked over weekend when early 3G TCU locked up (issue was permanently resolved when dealer replaced TCU with later version). Longest so far for 2019 has been 2 weeks at the airport. I have never connected an external 12-vo!t charger to any of my LEAFs (DC-DC converter in each Leaf keeps or kept the 12-volt battery charged with my driving/charging/parking use patterns). I jump-started the cars on the rare occasions when I returned to dead battery and let DC-DC converter charge battery while driving and charging.
Click to expand...

This is a bit confusing. Are the "rare occasions when I returned to dead battery" incidents the ones referenced above? I guess you're saying the "rare occasions" of dead battery didn't ruin the battery?

Our 2013 Ford CMax (96k miles) is about to have it's 4th battery replacement, as the 3rd OEM Ford replacement battery lasted 21 months. Full warranty replacement, but a royal PIA because of the inconvenience. I just purchased a $100 Schumacher "Power Pack" lithium jump starter, and will keep it in the car. Ridiculous that Ford has yet to figure out how to prevent random parasitic drain in their CMax/Fusion hybrids.

We've NEVER had an issue (of any kind!!!) with our 2014 Toyota Avalon Hybrid, now at 101k miles. Still love the car, a solid 41mpg on the highway, although the squooshy (is that a word?) ride can get a little annoying (I spent 35 years driving VW/Audis...haha)

Thanks all for the interesting thread. I always learn something here. :D
Click to expand...

I am sure the "rare occaisions" took a toll on the OEM flooded cell battery in each car, but they still survived longer than most OEM batteries in my climate (likely due to much lower temperatures under the hood). The 2011 was only discharged once while the 2015 was discharged 2 or 3 times before the OEM battery failed. I am prepared to replace the OEM battery in the 2019 with an AGM deep cycle battery (probably a Yellow-Top Optima) as soon as I become aware of weakness.

I also keep a compact lithium ion booster pack in the car just in case I forget to unplug the Bluetooth adapter from the OBDII port when I park for extended time (I consider it insurance--won't need it if I have it, but will need it if I don't carry it).
 
gncndad said:
GerryAZ said:
My 2011 and 2015 were frequently parked unplugged at 50% to 70% SOC for up to 4 weeks at a time without incident (except once when I left Bluetooth adapter plugged in to OBDII port and Android device running LEAF Spy on the seat--12V battery in 2011 was dead when I returned after only 6 days). Also 2015 drained 12-volt
battery while parked over weekend when early 3G TCU locked up (issue was permanently resolved when dealer replaced TCU with later version). Longest so far for 2019 has been 2 weeks at the airport. I have never connected an external 12-vo!t charger to any of my LEAFs (DC-DC converter in each Leaf keeps or kept the 12-volt battery charged with my driving/charging/parking use patterns). I jump-started the cars on the rare occasions when I returned to dead battery and let DC-DC converter charge battery while driving and charging.
Click to expand...

This is a bit confusing. Are the "rare occasions when I returned to dead battery" incidents the ones referenced above? I guess you're saying the "rare occasions" of dead battery didn't ruin the battery?

Our 2013 Ford CMax (96k miles) is about to have it's 4th battery replacement, as the 3rd OEM Ford replacement battery lasted 21 months. Full warranty replacement, but a royal PIA because of the inconvenience. I just purchased a $100 Schumacher "Power Pack" lithium jump starter, and will keep it in the car. Ridiculous that Ford has yet to figure out how to prevent random parasitic drain in their CMax/Fusion hybrids.

We've NEVER had an issue (of any kind!!!) with our 2014 Toyota Avalon Hybrid, now at 101k miles. Still love the car, a solid 41mpg on the highway, although the squooshy (is that a word?) ride can get a little annoying (I spent 35 years driving VW/Audis...haha)

Thanks all for the interesting thread. I always learn something here. :D
Click to expand...

single incidences aren't enough to kill a battery. Yes, it took a hit and a big one at that but you have to do it a half dozen times or so. I have had batteries in the long past that went very low only 2-3 times and they failed to hold a charge when the weather turned. Others went 4-5 times and survived the Winter.

But in any of those cases, the one thing that stands is bringing Lead acid down does do permanent loss.
 
But in any of those cases, the one thing that stands is bringing Lead acid down does do permanent loss.
Click to expand...


Yes. The battery may seem fine afterward, but it will have lost substantial capacity. Going down to near dead, but not quite, can cause less damage. My 2013 did that when about a year old: the lights were dim and the auto door locks wouldn't work, but the battery wasn't dead, and it was still working fine (with occasional trickle charges) when I turned the car in at 5 years old.
 

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