First off let me start by saying that I love driving my Leaf and I love the car. I just purchased it in November 2021. My only concern is the range and battery degradation the Leafs our known for so I started to look into Chevy Bolts . They have substantial more range and the potential of getting a new battery due to the recall on the battery for the Bolts. There are a few dealerships in my area that have used Bolts, of course this means spending a bit more to buy one since they are more expensive than a Leaf . My battery is currently at 82% SOH. Just wanted to get some opinions on this . Is it worth making the change ?
Selling 2017 Leaf SV to buy 2017 Chevy Bolt
- Thread starter Dyno1
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cwerdna
Well-known member
I had a '19 Bolt Premier that I bought new for ~3 years. It had a US-made pack so it wasn't included in any battery recall until ~Aug 2021 (https://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/home.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2021/aug/0820-bolt.html). I began the buyback process on 9/14/21 and finally got an offer on ~1/7/22 and turned it on 1/28/22. I'm in CA and had not very high mileage, so I got a really great offer given that I claimed the full $7500 Federal tax credit when I bought it new in Jan 2019.
At the time of my Bolt being included in the recall, I feared I could be waiting a very long time for pack as GM had given no ETA (and still hasn't). I didn't like that prospect of needing to park outside (hard on the interior and exterior, leaves car open to vandalism, burglary, rats eating wiring, etc.) for maybe a year+.
All Bolts w/o "defect-free" batteries are on stop sale, so GM dealers cannot sell them legally w/o having their packs replaced. See groups at https://www.donohoochevrolet.com/blogs/3987/bolt-recall-update-batteries-incoming. Non-GM sources don't have to abide by stop sale.
Yes, ALL '17 to '19 Bolts for sure will get their packs replaced if they haven't been already. You can run the VIN via one of the methods at top of https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/battery-replacement-recall-remedy-tracking-summary.41131/ to see what state it's in. If it has no open recalls, the pack was replaced. It might be in a recall # ending in 883 == 80% limiter patch available (which it is for all Bolts now). If it's 881 and there's no "remedy not yet available", it's eligible for a new pack.
'20 to '22 Bolts are still up in the air in terms of new pack or not as we haven't heard any news on https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/chevy-expands-recall-to-include-through-2022-chevy-bolts-and-euv.40076/page-7#post-637633. However, the procedure for '20 to '22 Bolts also currently calls for replacing the entire pack and the part # is the same. The recall numbers for '20 and '22 are 940 vs. 941. They get flipped to 941 if the VIN is eligible for a pack. Not many '20 to '22 have had their packs changed. There's no different recall # for '20 to '22 re: 80% limiter.
The 80% limiter (see https://www.chevrolet.com/electric/bolt-recall under software update) temp patch once applied by a dealer GM asserts is safe enough that you can charge overnight unattended and park inside. This didn't exist until ~11/19/21 for '19 Bolts first and came later for remaining Bolts.
I can say its range is a GAME changer vs. my 1 bar down 24 kWh Leaf. It should still be a huge improvement over your 30 kWh Leaf and all '17 to '19 Bolts will get larger capacity packs than what they came with. All '17 to '19 Bolt drivers received this letter, including me: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2021/RMISC-21V560-4200.pdf.
The docs uploaded to NHTSA via https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/fire-recalls-summary-and-timeline-updated-12-21-21.39544#post-628005 may help.
If you care about being able to DC fast charge, make sure it has the SAE Combo inlet (orange flap covering 2 extra holes). See https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/stranded-in-texas-with-only-15-miles.39988/#post-635409. The OP of that thread didn't have DC FC inlet and found out the hard way. It cannot be added afterward (for all intents and purposes). You may also be able to tell via under the hood pics if there's no inlet pic: https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/how-to-find-out-if-a-used-bolt-has-dc-fast-charger.37075/#post-577370. However, the SAFEST way is to see the inlet.
It was never standard on US-market Bolts until '21 Bolt Premier (https://gmauthority.com/blog/2020/10/2021-chevy-bolt-ev-premier-gains-fast-charging-as-standard/). For all other earlier model years, it was optional regardless of LT vs. Premier trim.
You may run into Bolt parking bans (e.g. https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/bolt-parking-only.40557/page-7#post-663639). The Bolt parking ban insanity even spread to my work on Oct 15, 2021.
https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/can-i-still-do-a-buyback-trade-with-gm.42143/#post-686590 was a summary of my work Bolt parking situation.
Other than the frustrations w/the parking bans, my Bolt was troublefree, which is a bit surprising for a GM product.
I did post a bunch of commentary at https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=18907 during the time I had my Bolt. Recommend you join chevybolt.org. There are numerous Bolt FB groups but just like Leaf FB groups, they can be downright frustrating, at times.
I'm now leasing a Niro EV for 3 years as a temp EV. Bolt buyback amount was great and was like me getting to drive a car for free for 3 years and ~21K miles. Even though a Niro EV lease is costly, I figured that it was less than the depreciation my Bolt would have it would have when it was new vs. it turns 6 years old (3 years from now). And, I wouldn't run into the Bolt ban nonsense.
At the time of my Bolt being included in the recall, I feared I could be waiting a very long time for pack as GM had given no ETA (and still hasn't). I didn't like that prospect of needing to park outside (hard on the interior and exterior, leaves car open to vandalism, burglary, rats eating wiring, etc.) for maybe a year+.
All Bolts w/o "defect-free" batteries are on stop sale, so GM dealers cannot sell them legally w/o having their packs replaced. See groups at https://www.donohoochevrolet.com/blogs/3987/bolt-recall-update-batteries-incoming. Non-GM sources don't have to abide by stop sale.
Yes, ALL '17 to '19 Bolts for sure will get their packs replaced if they haven't been already. You can run the VIN via one of the methods at top of https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/battery-replacement-recall-remedy-tracking-summary.41131/ to see what state it's in. If it has no open recalls, the pack was replaced. It might be in a recall # ending in 883 == 80% limiter patch available (which it is for all Bolts now). If it's 881 and there's no "remedy not yet available", it's eligible for a new pack.
'20 to '22 Bolts are still up in the air in terms of new pack or not as we haven't heard any news on https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/chevy-expands-recall-to-include-through-2022-chevy-bolts-and-euv.40076/page-7#post-637633. However, the procedure for '20 to '22 Bolts also currently calls for replacing the entire pack and the part # is the same. The recall numbers for '20 and '22 are 940 vs. 941. They get flipped to 941 if the VIN is eligible for a pack. Not many '20 to '22 have had their packs changed. There's no different recall # for '20 to '22 re: 80% limiter.
The 80% limiter (see https://www.chevrolet.com/electric/bolt-recall under software update) temp patch once applied by a dealer GM asserts is safe enough that you can charge overnight unattended and park inside. This didn't exist until ~11/19/21 for '19 Bolts first and came later for remaining Bolts.
I can say its range is a GAME changer vs. my 1 bar down 24 kWh Leaf. It should still be a huge improvement over your 30 kWh Leaf and all '17 to '19 Bolts will get larger capacity packs than what they came with. All '17 to '19 Bolt drivers received this letter, including me: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2021/RMISC-21V560-4200.pdf.
The docs uploaded to NHTSA via https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/fire-recalls-summary-and-timeline-updated-12-21-21.39544#post-628005 may help.
If you care about being able to DC fast charge, make sure it has the SAE Combo inlet (orange flap covering 2 extra holes). See https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/stranded-in-texas-with-only-15-miles.39988/#post-635409. The OP of that thread didn't have DC FC inlet and found out the hard way. It cannot be added afterward (for all intents and purposes). You may also be able to tell via under the hood pics if there's no inlet pic: https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/how-to-find-out-if-a-used-bolt-has-dc-fast-charger.37075/#post-577370. However, the SAFEST way is to see the inlet.
It was never standard on US-market Bolts until '21 Bolt Premier (https://gmauthority.com/blog/2020/10/2021-chevy-bolt-ev-premier-gains-fast-charging-as-standard/). For all other earlier model years, it was optional regardless of LT vs. Premier trim.
You may run into Bolt parking bans (e.g. https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/bolt-parking-only.40557/page-7#post-663639). The Bolt parking ban insanity even spread to my work on Oct 15, 2021.
https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/can-i-still-do-a-buyback-trade-with-gm.42143/#post-686590 was a summary of my work Bolt parking situation.Other than the frustrations w/the parking bans, my Bolt was troublefree, which is a bit surprising for a GM product.
I did post a bunch of commentary at https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=18907 during the time I had my Bolt. Recommend you join chevybolt.org. There are numerous Bolt FB groups but just like Leaf FB groups, they can be downright frustrating, at times.
I'm now leasing a Niro EV for 3 years as a temp EV. Bolt buyback amount was great and was like me getting to drive a car for free for 3 years and ~21K miles. Even though a Niro EV lease is costly, I figured that it was less than the depreciation my Bolt would have it would have when it was new vs. it turns 6 years old (3 years from now). And, I wouldn't run into the Bolt ban nonsense.
Awesome , thanks for that info . A bolt I am interested in , when I punch I the vin for recall the number ends in 883 and says no remedy available. Is it eligible for a new pack and is kinda just online waiting ? The dealer has another bolt and it’s recall ends in 881 and says open. I just want to make sure I buy a bolt that will get a new battery pack , has GM said all will be getting a new battery ?
cwerdna
Well-known member
883 (for '17 to '19) means they can get the 80% limiter software update, which is true for all Bolts now which haven't had a replaced pack. '20 to '22 will remain 940 for the 80% limiter. Don't worry about the "remedy not yet available". It's confusing and a long story but we believe it means that that VIN isn't eligible for a pack yet.
881 (or 941 for '20 to '22) and open, incomplete, etc. WITHOUT remedy not yet available means that VIN is eligible for a replacement. Pages 3 and 4 of the latest rev of https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/new-version-revision-02-of-battery-replacement-instructions-came-out.41360/ has the dealer pack ordering instructions.
https://www.chevrolet.com/electric/bolt-recall under Sept 20, 2021 news says:
From what we know externally, based upon https://electrek.co/2021/07/28/everything-we-know-about-the-chevy-bolt-ev-fires/, it seems '19 Made in Korea (MIK) packs are the riskiest followed by '17. The rest we aren't really sure about. All '17 to '18 Bolts + subset of '19 had MIK packs. Those were part of the original Nov 2020 battery fire recall that ONLY included MIK packs. GM/LG thought the defects were confined to Ochang, South Korea packs. Subset of '19 + all '20 to '22 Bolts had Made in US (MIU) packs. MIU packs didn't get recalled until Aug 2021.
Based upon reports on chevybolt.org + Bolt FB groups + backed up by data uploaded to NHTSA (https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/recall-quarterly-report-2021-3.41181/#post-687851), it sure seems like '20 to '22 will be waiting awhile. I don't know why GM used those recall numbers.... 880 and 940 were the original battery recall numbers and GM flips them to 881 and 941 when a VIN becomes eligible.
Side note: Edmunds (e.g. at https://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/bolt-ev/2017/long-term-road-test/2017-chevrolet-bolt-monthly-update-for-june-2018.html and https://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/bolt-ev/2017/long-term-road-test/2017-chevrolet-bolt-monthly-update-for-september-2018.html, search for reflect) has complained many times about the reflections in the windshield so they advise getting the darkest interior possible.
Also, don't know which features you care about, if any. Might help to look at brochure. See the end of https://s3.amazonaws.com/fzautomotive/dealers/2017-bolt.pdf, for example. Found it by Googling for 2017 bolt brochure. For example, when I was shopping for a '19, I wanted Surround Vision (it's like Nissan's Around View Monitor, which I loved). That was ONLY available if you got the Premier trim. And, at the time, '19 Premiers I believe if they had DC FC (which was a must for me since Bolt was going to be my only car), they tended to also have driver confidence II and infotainment package. Since I heard the stock stereo was not very good, that meant I had to go for the Bose stereo for a better one which is part of the infotainment package, ONLY available on Premier.
881 (or 941 for '20 to '22) and open, incomplete, etc. WITHOUT remedy not yet available means that VIN is eligible for a replacement. Pages 3 and 4 of the latest rev of https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/new-version-revision-02-of-battery-replacement-instructions-came-out.41360/ has the dealer pack ordering instructions.
Yes for '17 to '19. '20 to '22 have the caveats I mentioned. It is unknown if GM is still working on that process for '20 to '22 or has abandoned it.Dyno1 said:
https://www.chevrolet.com/electric/bolt-recall under Sept 20, 2021 news says:
I pointed to a quote from GM at https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/bolt-parking-only.40557/page-6#post-662935, as well.
From what we know externally, based upon https://electrek.co/2021/07/28/everything-we-know-about-the-chevy-bolt-ev-fires/, it seems '19 Made in Korea (MIK) packs are the riskiest followed by '17. The rest we aren't really sure about. All '17 to '18 Bolts + subset of '19 had MIK packs. Those were part of the original Nov 2020 battery fire recall that ONLY included MIK packs. GM/LG thought the defects were confined to Ochang, South Korea packs. Subset of '19 + all '20 to '22 Bolts had Made in US (MIU) packs. MIU packs didn't get recalled until Aug 2021.
Based upon reports on chevybolt.org + Bolt FB groups + backed up by data uploaded to NHTSA (https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/recall-quarterly-report-2021-3.41181/#post-687851), it sure seems like '20 to '22 will be waiting awhile. I don't know why GM used those recall numbers.... 880 and 940 were the original battery recall numbers and GM flips them to 881 and 941 when a VIN becomes eligible.
Side note: Edmunds (e.g. at https://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/bolt-ev/2017/long-term-road-test/2017-chevrolet-bolt-monthly-update-for-june-2018.html and https://www.edmunds.com/chevrolet/bolt-ev/2017/long-term-road-test/2017-chevrolet-bolt-monthly-update-for-september-2018.html, search for reflect) has complained many times about the reflections in the windshield so they advise getting the darkest interior possible.
Also, don't know which features you care about, if any. Might help to look at brochure. See the end of https://s3.amazonaws.com/fzautomotive/dealers/2017-bolt.pdf, for example. Found it by Googling for 2017 bolt brochure. For example, when I was shopping for a '19, I wanted Surround Vision (it's like Nissan's Around View Monitor, which I loved). That was ONLY available if you got the Premier trim. And, at the time, '19 Premiers I believe if they had DC FC (which was a must for me since Bolt was going to be my only car), they tended to also have driver confidence II and infotainment package. Since I heard the stock stereo was not very good, that meant I had to go for the Bose stereo for a better one which is part of the infotainment package, ONLY available on Premier.
OrientExpress
Well-known member
You would be better off in replacing your Generation 1 LEAF for a used 2nd generation LEAF.
The 2nd generation is larger more reliable car than the Bolt, plus it has the redesigned million-mile battery in it.
The 2nd generation is larger more reliable car than the Bolt, plus it has the redesigned million-mile battery in it.
DougWantsALeaf
Well-known member
Blackbolt moved from a Bolt to a 40 Leaf 6 months ago. You might talk to him about the real range and experience differences.
https://youtu.be/vNmGO9Wrud4
https://youtu.be/vNmGO9Wrud4
It's kind of sad that people are still, today, buying or leasing the S trim without knowing that it has no heat pump.
Just spoke to a GM advisor , the car is inline for a new battery . They just don't know when. She did take my info and if I do buy the car, they will keep me updated on when the battery will be done. As for buying a gen2 Leaf, not interested. I love my gen1 but I don't trust the nissan battery technology. Even though GM is recalling their batteries, the technology and having them liquid cooled and longer range is a winner for me. I went and had a quick look today at the Bolt at the dealership and I think it's a nicer car than the leaf , but that is just my opinion
I'm not trying to change your mind about what you buy, but the Leaf II batteries - especially the 62kwh - seem to be winners, as long as you don't need to do multiple DCFC sessions the same day. There have been a few with bad cells that get replaced easily enough, but no fires. I understand your distrust of Nissan, but some of us feel the same way about GM, Toyota, and others.
cwerdna
Well-known member
If it showed no open recalls, it likely had its battery changed already. Also, '17 to '19 Bolts with replaced packs AFAIK should have a label indicating N2.2 and 64 kWh (https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/verify-new-capacity-after-battery-replacement.42035/#post-683057 and https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/got-a-new-battery.41284/#post-664120).Dyno1 said:
See https://www.donohoochevrolet.com/blogs/3987/bolt-recall-update-batteries-incoming under groups for possible states. They at https://www.donohoochevrolet.com/searchused.aspx?Make=Chevrolet&Model=Bolt%20EV has sometimes had a few Bolts with the battery changed that they can sell.
If you have questions about a specific VIN, EV concierge might be able to help. Contact info is at the bottom of https://www.chevrolet.com/electric/bolt-recall.
Thanks for the link. I spoke to EV concierge this morning and the car is due for a new battery , just waiting it’s turn . Going to have a look at it this morning and see what they’d give on trade for the Leaf . I do have the Leaf for sale privately and have had interest . If the dealer will give me the right price o trade , I may go for it to give a break on taxes .
Dyno1 said:
Just remember my Golden Rule about trades: don't admit that you have a trade until you have a firm deal offer Only then "decide" that you'd like to know what they'd give you for the Leaf. A lot of people give dealers some equity, or even give them a free car, by mentioning up front that they have a car to trade in.
They offered $16750 for my car , with savings on the tax if I bought it works out to just under $19000 Canadian. I have listed it privately for $22,000. They offered $16500, I said no . I was hoping $18000 because it would workout to $20000 after tax savings but I said I’d do $17,000 because that’s $19000 with tax savings . They came back at the $16750. I walked away for now. A new bolt is about $38,000 Canadian after taxes and government rebate but I wouldn’t get the car until possibly summer because the GM dealer can’t deliver the car until it has the new battery and the sales guy said the cars on lots at dealerships will be last done. Going used is about $5000 less than new . I’d consider new if I didn’t have to wait 6 months to get it.
alozzy
Well-known member
You might be better off buying used in the US and importing into Canada.
cwerdna
Well-known member
Yep on the 1st part. On the 2nd, yes, it is probably true too. It seems GM is (rightfully) more interested in first helping existing drivers of Bolts than ones stuck under stop sale order in dealer inventory or still with GM.Dyno1 said:
It would be pretty bad optics if they en masse started replacing batteries on inventory cars when they still haven't flipped all '17 to '19 owners to be eligible and have done virtually no '20 to '22 Bolts (I haven't heard of a single case of '20 to '22 Bolts being flipped to 941). Likely any '20 to '22 drivers who got their packs replaced (40 in the quarterly) report had some battery failure that crippled their car and thus got moved to the front of the line.
https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/recall-quarterly-report-2021-3.41181/#post-687851 has US quarterly remedy numbers with 880 being '17 to '19 and 940 being '20 to '22.
Well the leaf is gone , Mazda dealer bought it for what I paid for it in November. Also bought a Bolt today , picking it up tomorrow. Thank you to everyone for all their help when I was looking for a Leaf and after I bought it . Special thanks to LeftieBiker, you provided me with so much information when I was shopping for a leaf and owned one . You were always helpful when I had a question .
cwerdna
Well-known member
https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/general-motors/2022/02/15/chevrolet-bolt-orion-assembly-production-restarts-spring/6794987001/ says "On Tuesday, GM said it will restart production of its Chevrolet Bolt and Bolt EUV April 4 as it continues to fix defective batteries as part of a global recall on the cars. "
Thanks for the link. I called GM Canada today and they have me as the new owner of the bolt , so they will notify me of battery updates. The agent directed me to call my local GM dealer where it was serviced. I spoke to the service department and the one I bought has had the software update so I can only charge up to 80% which allows me to park it inside and charge it also inside and I think overnight. The service person said that their current bolts on their lot are 8 weeks out for getting new batteries, so it could be awhile for me as my recall number still shows 883.
