12V Battery problems

[LeftieBiker]

You probably had a nearly-dead, but not fully dead battery, just like what happened to me. I couldn't open the car, but there was enough juice to maintain settings.

But I always disconnect the battery maintainer negative lead and reconnect so it can check the resting 12V voltage and start the maintainer cycle from the start.

I never do that, and it doesn't seem to matter, at least not with the DieHard or Battery Tender Jr. maintainers (which both happen to use the same accessory lead connection). They appear to monitor battery voltage in more or less real time, not cyclically.

 

[kballs]

My 12v battery died today (4.5 years old) but in the worst way, there was power but the car acted possessed.

• The car wouldn't startup fully, I got a dashboard with no readings for battery charge level, temperature, etc. and --- for miles remaining.
• I couldn't release the parking brake or take the car out of park.
• The power was flickering on and off (dash and infotainment system flickering on and off).
• It also complained that the key was not detected (didn't help to replace the batteries in the remote).

if image doesn't work: https://onedrive.live.com/redir?res...authkey=!ACG59E_xXAiCduY&v=3&ithint=photo,jpg

I was ready to get the car towed to the dealer and was expecting to need a computer replacement. This was a terrible experience. I can't believe in a car like this that they can't have a light or menu display that indicates the 12v battery is dying/low-voltage.

Being an engineer experienced in "try changing variables one at a time until it changes behavior", I disconnected the 12v battery to reset the computer. That didn't help. Then I disconnected the battery and plugged the electrical system directly into my charger/starter/jumper (the type that plugs into a 120v wall outlet) and the car turned on like normal.

After a trip to the store (in another car) to get a new battery, I put the new one in and had the same problem. I hooked up the charger/starter and put it on "boost", started the car up, then disconnected the charger and ran the car for a few minutes (it does charge the 12v battery from the DC-DC converter while the car is on). After 10 minutes I turned the car off and back on and everything was working (except one of the keys not being detected). This tells me the new battery wasn't fully up to voltage from the factory after sitting in the store... this is normal but most ICE cars will have enough to start and charge the battery, not the Leaf apparently.

What I learned

• The Leaf seems to be sensitive to a 12v battery that's not fully topped up
• The behavior of the car with a dying 12v battery is unpredictable and will not show an obvious root cause

Issues caused by the experience

• One of the keys is dead (watch out for reversing the coin battery, apparently it's enough to fry the key)
• The charging timers won't turn on anymore no matter how many times I go through the menu to set them, so something in the infotainment system is corrupted or fried (must have happened when the power was flickering on and off... I think something was wrong with the unit from day 1 as I've had it power itself off - totally dead - while driving a few times then turn itself back on). For now I'm not doing anything and will just charge when plugged in... hoping the infotainment system doesn't die and require me to spend $3000 to replace it.

This incident has broken the camel's back and pushed me from wondering if I should have leased this car to fully regretting not leasing it. The range was never that great despite my tempered expectations (and now it's dropping further), it's already way behind in features like heated seats/steering wheel/L2 charging rate/heating system, it's already had 1 computer replacement early on because of inability to install flash updates (free under warranty but not confidence inspiring for future out-of-warranty issues), and now I can expect this scenario again and possibly fried/corrupted electronics the next time the 12v battery dies.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I'm wondering if you have an unresolved issue in the car's "brains" rather than just a lot of damage from a dying accessory battery. The symptoms seem kind of extreme for the latter...

 

[Bob]

As others have said, the Leaf 12V battery charger is not very good.

If you want your Leaf to be reliable, get a 12V battery charger and hook it to your battery at least every week. I use the Battery Tender Plus, but there are other good ones out there. I added a connector to the front of the car where a QC port would be, for easily connecting the 12V charger. It won't use noticeable electricity, compared to the many kWH used by the EVSE.

From what I know about car batteries, this should extend the life of the 12V battery to 8-10 years in a cold or moderate climate. People in Florida and Texas know that heat kills all batteries, whether lithium or lead based.

Yes, it's inconvenient, but a little less inconvenient with the connector and with the 12V charger mounted next to my EVSE.

Bob

 

[Nubo]

Being an engineer experienced in "try changing variables one at a time until it changes behavior", I disconnected the 12v battery to reset the computer. That didn't help. Then I disconnected the battery and plugged the electrical system directly into my charger/starter/jumper (the type that plugs into a 120v wall outlet) and the car turned on like normal.

...
[*]The charging timers won't turn on anymore no matter how many times I go through the menu to set them, so something in the infotainment system is corrupted or fried (must have happened when the power was flickering on and off...

You might want to purchase an ODBII adapter and the LEAF SPY smartphone app, which will let you clear internal fault codes.

I'd strongly recommend to NOT run the car directly off of a 12V charger without a battery installed. The battery serves as a buffer, otherwise you're susceptible to any spikes or unclean waveform that the charger puts out. Not worth the risk of damaging expensive electronics.

 

[TimLee]

... For some reason, the Leaf retained all set ups from XM settings, Internet/phone connections, garage door opener to dashboard time.
***. Is there another battery in the system that keeps the set ups in place as in a lap top? ...

My 12V has run to "dead" several times.
Always the eyebrow clock is wrong and startup sound effect reverts to default Effect 1.
But navigation / radio has never lost settings.
Even the couple times I had to jump start with ICE or backup battery.

No second battery.
But it may have either non-volatile memory or capacitor power that survives a long time.

 

[TimLee]

... This was a terrible experience. I can't believe in a car like this that they can't have a light or menu display that indicates the 12v battery is dying/low-voltage.

Agree it should have a proper warning.
But ICE vehicles don't either.
But they also don't act erratic like the LEAF when 12V is badly low. The LEAF can do what you experienced or in a much worse senario have badly degraded braking.

... This incident has broken the camel's back and pushed me from wondering if I should have leased this car to fully regretting not leasing it. The range was never that great despite my tempered expectations (and now it's dropping further), it's already way behind in features like heated seats/steering wheel/L2 charging rate/heating system, it's already had 1 computer replacement early on because of inability to install flash updates (free under warranty but not confidence inspiring for future out-of-warranty issues), and now I can expect this scenario again and possibly fried/corrupted electronics the next time the 12v battery dies.

The 12V charging is badly designed.

But its not much of a camel back breaker like the $6,000 high voltage battery my LEAF will need probably six months after the crazy class action capacity warranty disappears at five years with only 36,000 miles on it.

The 12V charging, grabby brakes, erratic braking over varying surfaces, high static interior fabric, etc. are pretty small flaws in comparison.

 

[TimLee]

But I always disconnect the battery maintainer negative lead and reconnect so it can check the resting 12V voltage and start the maintainer cycle from the start.

I never do that, and it doesn't seem to matter, at least not with the DieHard or Battery Tender Jr. maintainers (which both happen to use the same accessory lead connection). They appear to monitor battery voltage in more or less real time, not cyclically.

The CTEK will probably do that too.
But I don't think it is real time.
At least the lights do not indicate that.

But if you disconnect it, it will clearly indicate starting over to check and properly charge the 12V.

 

[kballs]

After several days of driving the car, my wife says she went back through the charging timers and it successfully set/saved/enabled the timers again, so it's back to normal [everyday early adopter pains].

 

[Evoforce]

See, so it was nothing to get your jockeys in a bunch O kballs. :mrgreen:

 

[Swifty]

The local Nissan agent has finally got to the root of this problem.

After fitting a new battery, the voltage continued to drop. So further tests were run.
It was found that the ABS unit had a steady drain on the battery, even with everything turned off.

The cost of the repair is £1850.10

And there I was, last September, crowing over the fact that my Leaf had covered the cost of its' purchase, and I was now better off than I would have been had I not bought it. Well, that state will take me another couple of years to reach again...

 

[sub3marathonman]

It was found that the ABS unit had a steady drain on the battery, even with everything turned off.

The cost of the repair is £1850.10

I'm wondering how much drain was it? Was it something that might have been replenished with a good 12V charger every few days, or even every day? For £1850.10 I'd be willing to put it on the charger three times a day.

Was the ABS unit otherwise working OK? And call me skeptical and cynical, but did you get the old ABS unit back or somehow verify that it was indeed the problem?

 

[Phatcat73]

I have something like this installed on each of my cars for random 12V top offs. They come with quick disconnects for easier use.

https://www.amazon.com/Battery-Tender-022-0185G-dl-wh-Charger-Maintainer/dp/B00DJ5KEEA/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1491846052&sr=1-1-spons&keywords=battery+tender&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/NOCO-G3500-UltraSafe-Battery-Charger/dp/B004LWVEKS/ref=sr_1_13?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1491846052&sr=1-13&keywords=battery+tender

And this device to check CCA before and after:
https://www.amazon.com/BA7-100-1200-Electronic-Battery-System/dp/B0015PI7A4/ref=sr_1_2?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1491846321&sr=1-2&keywords=solar+cca

 

[Swifty]

The drain was sufficient that I'd have to connect a 12V charger every night. When I put a multimeter across the terminals of a fully charged 12V battery, the voltage was dropping 0.01V every two seconds or so.
I didn't have range anxiety, I was worrying about what might happen if the 12V battery voltage fell too low whilst I was driving. I never found out, as presumably the 12V battery was being charged from the main battery as I drove along.
On the last journey to the dealer, the Leaf started with a predicted 96 miles (hopelessly optimistic). 13 miles later, at the dealers, it had 46 miles left.
So, something has to be done, otherwise it's on the way to the scrapyard.
I can't afford to replace it, but I can afford the occasional repair, even at an eye-watering price.
This is actually the first time any parts have been replaced, if we ignore the new wheel nuts when I misplaced the wheel nuts key... (during a tyre replacement). For a vehicle that is over 6 years old, the total costs are not too bad.