2013 Leaf bar loss.

[DaveinOlyWA]

Not gonna lie. I post this ONLY to piss someone off...

View attachment 1

View attachment 1

Pretty impressive .The assemblers must have got a raise that day at Smyrna.
30 days ago I was at 60.2 Ah 20.4 kWh ( Bat temp 59 F average) , now low 57's Ah 19.4 kWh ( bat temp 74 F) . seems a fine line between degradation and healthy pack.
After 3 years pretty much the same battery capacity as the average 13 model (manufactured summer 13).
The next EV I own, , Bolt or e-NV200 or whatever WILL have tms, and of course a large battery.
Hopefully I won't need a really long extension cord before that happens. :?

I was at 58.44 ahr, 19.3 kwh available, 253 GIDs, 88% Hx a week ago

http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2016/05/april-2016-drive-report-after-36000.html

 

[dhanson865]

Not gonna lie. I post this ONLY to piss someone off...

View attachment 1

I want your pack.

That 98% SOH is key, but that 9 mv cell balance is impressive as well.

 

[knightmb]

My 2013 SV lost its first bar a few weeks ago. I would guess I noticed within a few days, as both my wife and I drive it. I will attach a pic of Leafspy from the day I noticed it was down 1 bar.

3/4/16
Ahr 55.78
SOH 85%
Hx 81.54
45,310 mi
289 QC/1347 L1/L2
Inservice 9/2013 IIRC, I purchased used with 37k mi in 8/2015

I can't be far behind then. Still showing all 12 bars on my dash.

2013 Nissan Leaf SV
Manufactured 6/28/2013
Purchased - 9/15/2013 (79 Miles at dealer)

 

[knightmb]

Finally lost my first bar Monday, my range is still averaging 85 to 90 miles per charge, so I haven't noticed a big enough capacity loss just yet.
I drive my leaf hard with no care taken for the battery.

 

[baustin]

I noticed that my second bar dropped when I started up the Leaf on June 3rd. I took a reading with Leaf Spy on the 24th, after running errands. AHr=47.74, SOH=73%, Hx=66.57%, odo=23,745 miles.
The vehicle was manufactured in January 2013, spent it first two years in Georgia, was auctioned after lease return and brought to Las Vegas. I got it in March 2015. It dropped the first bar in October 2015, and the second bar in June 2016. If this rate of degradation continues, I should get a new battery under warranty. Maybe I'll move to a cooler climate after that....

Leaf Spy Readings: https://1drv.ms/f/s!AocGc-txowvahKITgB4lxVZJ773WVQ

 

[csites]

My 2013 SV lost its 1st bar after 3 years and 51k miles. That seemed reasonable. But then just 3 months later at 55k miles it lost another bar. Should I be concerned?

I asked the dealer and Nissan Leaf After-sales this question, and they both said a loss of 2 bars at 55k miles is normal. But neither addressed my concern about how quickly the 2nd bar was lost. One noted the recent 96*F heat as a factor.

I rarely ever use level-3 charging, and only occasionally use the 100% setting. I charge multiple times per day at home. I've never seen the battery temperature indicator go more than 1 bar above or below the center bar. A dealer test yesterday indicated 5 stars on the drive-battery.

I purchased the car new in March 2013. Thanks.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I purchased the car new in March 2013. Thanks.

You have an early build battery pack, unfortunately. I call them "Canary packs" because they lose bars noticeably faster than 2013 Leafs build in April or later. It's actually pretty impressive that the first bar lasted as long as it did - many early 2013 packs lose 2 bars well before this. You aren't going to get any help from Nissan on this, but if the car loses bars fast in hot weather, I suggest you either keep it hot as much as possible, or keep it as cool as possible if the range isn't an issue. You have a long while left on your battery capacity warranty time-wise, but you are starting to get close to 60k miles, which could be a real problem...

 

[csites]

If I've already lost 2 bars leaving me around 80% of original capacity, is there still a benefit to using the 80% long-life setting?

I've rarely used the 100% setting, but with the decrease in range, I may need it more often, and even wonder if I can just leave it set to 100% permanently.

Also, I heard later models even did away with the long-life setting, but I have no idea what its set to internally in that case, i.e. did they do away with the setting and set it internally to 90%?

 

[LeftieBiker]

Post-2013 Leafs charge to about 95% actual SOC, like any Leaf set to charge to 100%. If you want to preserve the range you have left, charging to 80% and then restarting charging to go to 100% as needed might be better than letting it sit for long periods at 100%.

What is the build date on the door jamb?

 

[csites]

Post-2013 Leafs charge to about 95% actual SOC, like any Leaf set to charge to 100%. If you want to preserve the range you have left, charging to 80% and then restarting charging to go to 100% as needed might be better than letting it sit for long periods at 100%.

What is the build date on the door jamb?

Thanks. The build date on the door jamb is 03/13.

 

[keydiver]

I asked the dealer and Nissan Leaf After-sales this question, and they both said a loss of 2 bars at 55k miles is normal.

Yeh, you're pretty much screwed. There's no way you are going to lose 2 more bars by 60,000 miles, so Nissan is going to tell you that everything is fine. A new battery is $5500, so you might as well charge it to 100% when you need the extra range, drive it until it doesn't make your commute anymore, and then decide whether to either sell it, trade it in, or buy a new battery. Unfortunately, you are one of the hundreds, perhaps thousands, who live in a hot enough climate to degrade the battery significantly, but not fast enough to qualify for a warranty replacement.
BTW, the dealer battery test doesn't look for reduced general capacity, it just tests for bad cells, and reports your driving and charging habits, so everyone gets 5 stars.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Thanks. The build date on the door jamb is 03/13.

Starting with 4/13 builds, the Leaf pack seems more resistant to bar loss. I missed being in your situation by one month...

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I asked the dealer and Nissan Leaf After-sales this question, and they both said a loss of 2 bars at 55k miles is normal.

Yeh, you're pretty much screwed. There's no way you are going to lose 2 more bars by 60,000 miles, so Nissan is going to tell you that everything is fine. A new battery is $5500, so you might as well charge it to 100% when you need the extra range, drive it until it doesn't make your commute anymore, and then decide whether to either sell it, trade it in, or buy a new battery. Unfortunately, you are one of the hundreds, perhaps thousands, who live in a hot enough climate to degrade the battery significantly, but not fast enough to qualify for a warranty replacement.
BTW, the dealer battery test doesn't look for reduced general capacity, it just tests for bad cells, and reports your driving and charging habits, so everyone gets 5 stars.

uhhh, no he is not. there are several ways to kill a battery that does not involve moving at all. One of the many things Nissan did was institute two limitations; time and mileage.

well for one thing mileage is a generalized term. the odometer will be roughly 2-3% optimistic on a worn set of tires so people who miss the 60,000 mile cutoff by a few hundred should be suing. The other thing is that some people drive to where they are getting 2.5 miles per kwh or 24,000 kwh while others are driving at 4.5 miles per kwh or 13,333 kwh. who do you think will lose a bar first?

lot of talk about AZ cars losing bars fast. well a signficant part of the problem has to be the amount of kwh going thru the pack. A/C is literally cranked on high 20 hours a day to survive down there which could easily mean nearly 10 kwh A DAY devoted without moving an inch...

so you have a 2013 and about 2 years left right? you have plenty of time

 

[pointlomadave]

I have 40,200 miles on my 2013 Leaf S. Lost the first bar at 31,500 miles. Still have 11 bars remaining now. Using my calculations, not sure I am gonig to make the battery warranty...not without some cheating as others have mentioned. I'm not really looking to play those games.

Recently, I haven't been charging to 100% much. I try to limit how much I charge at home due to energy costs when they double at the next rate tier. Wife charges free at work tho.

Anyway, curious what my car is really at. Need to hit someone up with a LeafSpy, or buy one myself.

 

[pointlomadave]

^^^Basically, assuming a linear loss of capacity, I'm set to lose bar # 4 at 70,800 miles.

So, need to start thinking about long term plans for the car.

 

[hmmwv]

I purchased mine certified preowned about 14 months ago with 67.36 AHr, 100% SOH (18600 miles), it dropped down to about 64 AHr by March this year, and then the degradation just accelerated and now I'm down to 59.01 AHr, 90% SOH. I'm at 31740 miles with 24 QC and 1377 L1/L2 charges. Round trip to work is about 36 miles, mostly highway driving at 55-60mph, I charge at home to 80% on L2 and plug in at work on L1 during the day that may charge to about 90%, I rarely charge to 100%. I think our early summer heat here in Western Washington might have played a role in the capacity loss.

 

[keydiver]

uhhh, no he is not. there are several ways to kill a battery that does not involve moving at all.

uhhh, I stand by my original statement. I've already been there, done that, and I just don't feel that someone in the PNW knows just what it takes to kill a Leaf battery. If he just lost his 2nd bar, he has lost ~22% capacity. He needs to lose another 12-13% in 5,000 miles, in North Carolina. In his climate, I'll bet it would take several years to lose another 13%, with the car parked at 100% SOC. In the south Florida heat, it took me 6 1/2 months and 4,000 miles to lose my last 6% SOC. Unless he pays to have his Leaf trucked to Arizona, and have someone charge it to 100% SOC frequently, and leave it sit like that for a year, I'm not buying your argument. Most people can't afford to just let their car sit for a year or 2 as an experiment.

 

[knightmb]

There is a way to kill the battery quite fast with no way for Nissan to prove you did it, but I don't know if sharing the information is suppose to get back at (Nissan) so everyone gets a new battery quickly or if it would turn into an issue that Nissan would penalize all Leaf owners in the future if all of sudden, everyone is getting free replacement batteries in mere weeks all at the same time. I already helped a user here do this for a 2012 model as it was initially an experiment because the user was about to run out of miles and not even close to losing 4 bars (also it was winter). If the experiment failed, the user was going to trade in for a newer year Leaf anyway, so he had nothing to lose really. It only took a week to destroy the battery organically so that Nissan would think it was just a bad pack and replace it.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I purchased mine certified preowned about 14 months ago with 67.36 AHr, 100% SOH (18600 miles), it dropped down to about 64 AHr by March this year, and then the degradation just accelerated and now I'm down to 59.01 AHr, 90% SOH. I'm at 31740 miles with 24 QC and 1377 L1/L2 charges. Round trip to work is about 36 miles, mostly highway driving at 55-60mph, I charge at home to 80% on L2 and plug in at work on L1 during the day that may charge to about 90%, I rarely charge to 100%. I think our early summer heat here in Western Washington might have played a role in the capacity loss.

your car is 3 years old so it will have lost some capacity no matter what. your readings are likely lower due to the fact that you rarely charge to 100%. Top end balancing will inflate the readings up to 2-3 points. If I were you I would not worry about it. you are doing it right. top end balancing is good if you need the range but if you don't, then don't worry about it. Your battery will be happier running in the 20-90% SOC range

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

uhhh, no he is not. there are several ways to kill a battery that does not involve moving at all.

uhhh, I stand by my original statement. I've already been there, done that, and I just don't feel that someone in the PNW knows just what it takes to kill a Leaf battery. If he just lost his 2nd bar, he has lost ~22% capacity. He needs to lose another 12-13% in 5,000 miles, in North Carolina. In his climate, I'll bet it would take several years to lose another 13%, with the car parked at 100% SOC. In the south Florida heat, it took me 6 1/2 months and 4,000 miles to lose my last 6% SOC. Unless he pays to have his Leaf trucked to Arizona, and have someone charge it to 100% SOC frequently, and leave it sit like that for a year, I'm not buying your argument. Most people can't afford to just let their car sit for a year or 2 as an experiment.

you are most welcome to your opinion. I am available by PM for more details if anyone else wants to know