2013 LEAF Range Test Feb 24, 2013 in San Diego; 81 miles

[TonyWilliams]

...It is never going to get EPA approval.

There is absolutely nothing comparable between the EPA laboratory dynometer five cycle testing and my little steady state drive in the wild.

Right - that is my point. None of the "real world" range tests can be compared to the rigor of an EPA test - and should not be. That is not the point of real world range tests.

Although, it wouldn't hurt to have a max range EPA number based on 55-60mph or something like that.

EPA 80% : 67
EPA 100%: 84
EPA max : 92

Then the same thing for cold weather and another for a 5 year old car at 60,000 miles.

 

[bobsfreeleaf]

You definitely want the chart somewhere at least until you're comfortable with the car. Here's how I solved the GOM issue:

[/quote]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Now that's funny....... It really sums up the EV experience.

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
Hey, in your future posts, would you mind making sure you have properly matching quote begin and end tags? Busted quotes makes posts difficult to read and many, including myself usually skip those.

Make sure you have matching pairs of these:

[quote]

(to begin)
and

[/quote]

(to end).

 

[bobsfreeleaf]

By the way: Took the car into the dealer this morning. They are testing for the faults we experienced but, as yet, have not duplicated them. I will get the definintive answer soon, but they are leaning toward blaming what they think was an ungrounded Blink charger. They said they have seen similar crazy error codes with bad charger stations (installed in homes) that come and go, never to be seen again.]

Nissan service concluded that the multiple errors that were recorded in my Leaf's computer were caused by a power surge in the Blink system. There was no lasting trace of any DTC errors, or the shifting into neutral issue. I guess it all boils down to lousy chargers and lousy luck :x

 

[TomT]

The Blink, like all EVSEs, just closes a relay to provide power to the Leaf. It has no active components in the power circuit to the Leaf and has no way to cause a power surge. Any power surge would have to come from a source external to the EVSE...

Nissan service concluded that the multiple errors that were recorded in my Leaf's computer were caused by a power surge in the Blink system. There was no lasting trace of any DTC errors, or the shifting into neutral issue. I guess it all boils down to lousy chargers and lousy luck :x

 

[MrIanB]

Thanks Tony for taking time to do the test again even though you no longer have a Leaf. That is great dedication on your part to our ev community.

Ian B

P.S. how far are you from San Jose? My nephew station at Camp Pendletton but moving next week to San Jose for new post. May come visit him and if not too far, meet you and thank you in person.

 

[bobsfreeleaf]

The Blink, like all EVSEs, just closes a relay to provide power to the Leaf. It has no active components in the power circuit to the Leaf and has no way to cause a power surge. Any power surge would have to come from a source external to the EVSE...

Nissan service concluded that the multiple errors that were recorded in my Leaf's computer were caused by a power surge in the Blink system. There was no lasting trace of any DTC errors, or the shifting into neutral issue. I guess it all boils down to lousy chargers and lousy luck :x

Hi Tom: If the event was not a result of the charger, what would you attribute the "computer freak out" to? Just a random computer glitch that resulted in a disabled vehicle? My only other thought was that it occurred at an extremely high level of charge (and extremely low level). Do similar "events" tend to repeat, in your experience? Even if there are no active problems reported by the internal computer? Thx, Bob

 

[RegGuheert]

Hi Tom: If the event was not a result of the charger, what would you attribute the "computer freak out" to? Just a random computer glitch that resulted in a disabled vehicle? My only other thought was that it occurred at an extremely high level of charge (and extremely low level). Do similar "events" tend to repeat, in your experience? Even if there are no active problems reported by the internal computer? Thx, Bob

The only time I have heard of similar behavior to what you and Tony described in a LEAF was when the 12V battery was either not charged fully (not likely here) or had a shorted cell. The result apparently was an inability of the modules to properly communicate over the CANbus and things went a little haywire.

I'm just wondering if you are experiencing either a manufacturing or a design issue that is related to the fact that you got LEAF number 283 off a new production line.

 

[Herm]

Although, it wouldn't hurt to have a max range EPA number based on 55-60mph or something like that.

People would still complaint they cant meet their EPA REAL WORLD™ in a 15mph headwind, people are whiners

 

[Ingineer]

The Blink, like all EVSEs, just closes a relay to provide power to the Leaf. It has no active components in the power circuit to the Leaf and has no way to cause a power surge. Any power surge would have to come from a source external to the EVSE...

Yes, but the blink sometimes keeps the relay closed when the car has requested removal of power. This will cause a DTC in the Leaf.

-Phil

 

[TonyWilliams]

Thanks Tony for taking time to do the test again even though you no longer have a Leaf. That is great dedication on your part to our ev community.

Ian B

P.S. how far are you from San Jose? My nephew station at Camp Pendletton but moving next week to San Jose for new post. May come visit him and if not too far, meet you and thank you in person.

Thank you. Camp Pendleton is in San Diego county, and I am a former Marine myself and my wife is current Navy. I was at the now closed MCAS El Toro in Orange County (just to the north of San Diego).

San Jose is about 400 miles from here!

Tony

 

[IBELEAF]

Not to sound harsh, but it's kind of a pointless test, knowing the specs stayed the same with just minor tweaks it was expected to get pretty much results as outgoing MY. What's interesting would've been is range comparison with heater on which essentially as we know it is the major improvement.

 

[dgpcolorado]

Not to sound harsh, but it's kind of a pointless test, knowing the specs stayed the same with just minor tweaks it was expected to get pretty much results as outgoing MY. What's interesting would've been is range comparison with heater on which essentially as we know it is the major improvement.

While I agree that a test of the new heater would be nice I completely disagree that a basic range test isn't important. There has been much speculation on how much the range has increased based on improvements in the car—better Cd, reduced mass, motor changes, minor battery chemistry changes—and the changed EPA numbers.

Not that it is likely to happen, but I'd like to see a 2013 driven over the Phoenix course at about the same temperature as the previous test. That would take the minor hills in SD out of the test and automatically correct for the different elevation (not that such a tiny difference amounts to much and it can be calculated).

 

[davewill]

Not to sound harsh, but it's kind of a pointless test, knowing the specs stayed the same with just minor tweaks it was expected to get pretty much results as outgoing MY. What's interesting would've been is range comparison with heater on which essentially as we know it is the major improvement.

Well, there was RAMPANT speculation by many, many folks that the range was going to improve. I, for one, am very glad Tony took the time to quash those speculations.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Not to sound harsh, but it's kind of a pointless test, knowing the specs stayed the same with just minor tweaks it was expected to get pretty much results as outgoing MY. What's interesting would've been is range comparison with heater on which essentially as we know it is the major improvement.

It's not pointless to the many folks who were absolutely convinced it would go farther. Of course, no amount of testing will help some separate fantasy from reality.

Great suggestion for a test; I presume we'll be hearing from you shortly with your results.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Not that it is likely to happen, but I'd like to see a 2013 driven over the Phoenix course at about the same temperature as the previous test. That would take the minor hills in SD out of the test and automatically correct for the different elevation (not that such a tiny difference amounts to much and it can be calculated).

You don't think ANYBODY in Phoenix will want to do this? Seems unlikely that somebody wouldn't want to do it at least once... The comparison car that I used was, in fact, somebody who did just that in Nov 2012.

 

[bobsfreeleaf]

Hi Tom: If the event was not a result of the charger, what would you attribute the "computer freak out" to? Just a random computer glitch that resulted in a disabled vehicle? My only other thought was that it occurred at an extremely high level of charge (and extremely low level). Do similar "events" tend to repeat, in your experience? Even if there are no active problems reported by the internal computer? Thx, Bob

The only time I have heard of similar behavior to what you and Tony described in a LEAF was when the 12V battery was either not charged fully (not likely here) or had a shorted cell. The result apparently was an inability of the modules to properly communicate over the CANbus and things went a little haywire.

I'm just wondering if you are experiencing either a manufacturing or a design issue that is related to the fact that you got LEAF number 283 off a new production line.

Not sure we will know that unless others experience the issue. It was a serious issue, in that the car was rendered unable to drive, then somewhat unsafe to drive (due to gear slipping into neutral). The comment about the 12V battery hits a chord since Tony revealed, when he was rebooting the car, that my terminal was NOT tightend completely. Not loose, but able to be pulled off with his hands. Maybe there is something to the weak battery theory. Thanks much. Bob

 

[dgpcolorado]

Not that it is likely to happen, but I'd like to see a 2013 driven over the Phoenix course at about the same temperature as the previous test. That would take the minor hills in SD out of the test and automatically correct for the different elevation (not that such a tiny difference amounts to much and it can be calculated).

You don't think ANYBODY in Phoenix will want to do this? Seems unlikely that somebody wouldn't want to do it at least once... The comparison car that I used was, in fact, somebody who did just that in Nov 2012.

With the battery heat problems, would anyone who lives in Phoenix and hangs around MNL buy or lease a 2013 LEAF? It doesn't seem like a good choice for that climate, although I suppose a leased car would be ok for those with relatively short commutes. I guess I'm not expecting there to be a lot of 2013s in the Phoenix area.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Not that it is likely to happen, but I'd like to see a 2013 driven over the Phoenix course at about the same temperature as the previous test. That would take the minor hills in SD out of the test and automatically correct for the different elevation (not that such a tiny difference amounts to much and it can be calculated).

You don't think ANYBODY in Phoenix will want to do this? Seems unlikely that somebody wouldn't want to do it at least once... The comparison car that I used was, in fact, somebody who did just that in Nov 2012.

With the battery heat problems, would anyone who lives in Phoenix and hangs around MNL buy or lease a 2013 LEAF? It doesn't seem like a good choice for that climate, although I suppose a leased car would be ok for those with relatively short commutes. I guess I'm not expecting there to be a lot of 2013s in the Phoenix area.

Again, the car that was driven in Nov 2012 was a replacement LEAF from one of the turned in LEAFs from our test.

I suspect most new buyers in Phoenix won't have any idea about heat and battery issues, nor will the dealers tell them. Certainly, a lease with a 40-50 mile commute is probably OK for most people in Phoenix, provided they don't want to drive 70+ mph on the freeways.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Tentatively planning a range test redux on Thursday, with a 1pm launch. If you're missing one or more capacity bars, or have a particularly new 2012, or a new 2013, you're invited for the 84 mile challenge.