2015: Battery Data Report @ 100% Charge

[LeafMuranoDriver]

View attachment 1

The major stat that jumps out to me is SOH, 98% down to 91% in that short of time is quite a difference.

I'm still at 99% SOH while my other #'s are down around 85-90%. I guess I should expect a large drop in SOH soon.

 

[jwalbaum]

Ahr - Hx - GIDs - L1/L2 - Temp F - Miles - Date
63.98 - 99.87 - 291 - 152 - 36.25 - 3175 - 11/6/2014
64.38 - 100.73 - 292 - 158 - 35.75 - 3287 - 11/7/2014
64.1 - 100.93 - 293 - 196 - 36.5 - 4034 - 11/20/2014
64.38 - 104.34 - 293 - 236 - 40 - 4661 - 12/5/2014
64.24 - 104.24 - 292 - 335 - 36.5 - 6039 - 1/15/2015
64.38 - 104.57 - 292 - 369 - 38.5 - 6694 - 1/31/2015
64.38 - 105.3 - 292 - 448 - 29.1 - 7863 - 3/1/2015
64.38 - 104.25 - 292 - 493 - 58.1 - 8968 - 3/18/2015
64.38 - 101.89 - 292 - 522 - 70.7 - 9617 - 4/2/2015
64.38 - 104.52 - 292 - 538 - 42.75 - 10066 - 4/10/2015
64.38 - 100.36 - 292 - 598 - 72 - 11578.6 - 5/8/2015
64.38 - 100.96 - 292 - 632 - 68 - 12370 - 5/24/2015
64.38 - 99.3 - 292 - 666 - 79 - 13294 - 6/18/2015
64.38 - 98.8 - 293 - 675 - 77 - 13664 - 6/30/2015
64.38 - 99.48 - 292 - 694 - 81.4 - 14251 - 7/16/2015
64.38 - 99.19 - 292 - 714 - 83.8 - 14774 - 8/1/2015
62.39 - 96.35 - 292 - 743 - 72 - 15730 - 8/29/2015
61.32 - 95.4 - 288 - 754 - 82 - 16030 - 9/8/2015
61.68 - 95.31 - 290 - 785 - 80 - 17074 - 9/29/2015
62.24 - 96.17 - 292 - 826 - 65 - 18314 - 10/24/2015
63.17 - 97.32 - 292 - 882 - 52 - 19711 - 11/19/2015
64.38 - 100.27 - 292 - 955 - 46 - 21061 - 12/21/2015
64.38 - 101.37 - 292 - 1049 - 31 - 22625 - 2/8/2016
63.98 - 98.31 - 292 - 1088 - 59 - 23436 - 3/13/2016
63.22 - 97.37 - 292 - 1116 - 54 - 24110 - 4/7/2016
61.48 - 94.98 - 289 - 1132 - 73 - 24590 - 4/18/2016
59.88 - 92.32 - 281 - 1197 - 89 - 26556 - 6/18/2016
60.57 - 93.47 - 285 - 1224 - 95 - 27286 - 7/25/2016
60.08 - 92.67 - 282 - 1252 - 72 - 28219 - 8/23/2016
59.14 - 91.12 - 278 - 1311 - 73 - 29786 - 9/25/2016
58.68 - 90.36 - 276 - 1322 - 74 - 30046 - 10/5/2016

 

[manidhan]

New registrant here

Area: Northern California (Sunnyvale).
Del:11/14, Mfd=: 10/14
As of today - 24 months @24k miles @100%charge
SoC:97%
GIDS: 263
Remain KWh: 20.4
AHr: 55.92
SoH: 90%
Hx: 84.71%
Qc:18, L1/L2: 702

 

[manidhan]

The algorithm took it away :|
These are only one month apart, but for the latter, I had only charged from around 50%. But there has to be some degradation at over 2 years, 25 k.

Unfortunately, the numbers are a bit worse for your 2015 when compared with your 2012 at a similar point in its life.

Kinda? GIDs are better, but AHrs are worse. Still don't get the correlation, doesn't seem constant. If my driving style changes, it wouldn't surprise me if it went back up. Not an issue anyway, I'm 10 miles from work and get no competition for the L2 there. Still averaging 1k/month. I'm lucky enough to be able to endure whatever degrading happens.

My numbers are very similar to your 2015 battery. As you saw in your leaf, a total of 292 GIDs in 2015 model correctly shows SoH=263/292*100=90% for my leaf (data above).

Both Ahr and SoH are supposed to report the health/degradation of the battery; they have to have some correlation. This is my understanding after going through several leaf stats posted posted all over the web (especially battery degrade wiki).

Up until 2014 models (and few 2015), the formula
SoH= Ahr/66.25 matched the reported SoH and Ahr numbers

From 2015
SoH=Ahr/62.25 works better (at least after a year or so).

Almost, all numbers in battery degrade wiki follows this. While I understand, SoH is taken directly from OBD2 (and no calculation involved), I am surprised at this correlation.

 

[LeafMuranoDriver]

New registrant here

Area: Northern California (Sunnyvale).
Del:11/14, Mfd=: 10/14
As of today - 24 months @24k miles @100%charge
SoC:97%
GIDS: 263
Remain KWh: 20.4
AHr: 55.92
SoH: 90%
Hx: 84.71%
Qc:18, L1/L2: 702

My stats are all very close to yours except for SOH. I really don't understand how mine is still at 99% or if there is some error of some kind.

 

[manidhan]

My stats are all very close to yours except for SOH. I really don't understand how mine is still at 99% or if there is some error of some kind.

That seems odd. If the numbers are same, either by Ahr or by the number of GIDs, your SOH should be close to 90%. Hmmm :?:

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

Drove a little more than usual at highway speeds this weekend and the numbers have bounced up just a bit, but I won't expect it to last.

 

[LeafMuranoDriver]

My stats are all very close to yours except for SOH. I really don't understand how mine is still at 99% or if there is some error of some kind.

That seems odd. If the numbers are same, either by Ahr or by the number of GIDs, your SOH should be close to 90%. Hmmm :?:

Exactly my thought. The only thing I can think of is that the BMS is reserving capacity for a later time since I don't drive that much. I've done everything to keep the battery in top shape.

 

[tkdbrusco]

I just want to add to the conversation here. I have one of the early off the line 2015 cars and am quite the power user when it comes to miles. My 2015 S was MFG 4/14, and currently has 38,200mi on it.

Here's a reading from about 3 days ago at a 100% charge

264 GIDS
20.46 kwh
97.21 SOC
84.66% SOH
85.05% HX
56.09 AHR

I agree with some of the comments above. With a 264 GIDS reading, I shouldn't be at 84.6% SOH. My capacity loss and real world range loss corresponds to about 9% degradation, but if you look at the AHR, HX, and SOH, you'd think that I were very very close to losing the first bar.

A friend of my with a 2013 MY car, only 9 months older than mine based on MFG, and ironically with 38K miles, just lost his first bar about a month ago. His SOH was at about 84.53%, HX at 83.34%, and AHR at 56.01. I wasn't able to take a reading at 100% on his car, but at 45.49% SOC, he had 95GIDS and 7.36kwh. If you extrapolate those out, you'll find that he should be getting about 220-230 GIDS at 100%. At the 281 max GIDS for a 2013, a 237 GIDS rating at 100% corresponds to a 15.5% capacity loss.

What scares me is that his numbers (other than GIDS and % of charge) are shockingly close to what mine are, but my real world range is a solid 6-7% higher than his. The only conclusion that I can come to is that there was a solid 5% of hidden capacity in the 2015 Lizard packs. Nothing else makes sense. The cars simply just ate away at that as they degraded, and the extra capacity also allowed for a 100% charge to be a real world 92% charge, which allowed for more headroom at the top for diminished degradation. Was there some new chemistry? Perhaps? perhaps not? Maybe Nissan just figured and extra kWh of battery space would do the trick.

Of course the million dollar question is when do I lose my bar? Based on my numbers, I suppose I could lose it in the next few weeks or months if we look at it compared to the 13/14 MY cars. But if Nissan just looks at Max GIDS, then I'm probably safe for another year at the current rate of decline. I'm hoping for the latter scenario obviously. There's also a chance that our Leaf Spy and in my case Leaf Stat apps aren't pulling the data appropriately compared to how Nissan may be evaluating it, as they are built upon the older cars algorithmns. There's cars on this thread that have been as low as 250 GIDS at max charge, and I have yet to drop below 260, so maybe there's more time?

I would also note that I'm a pretty efficient driver and my car has always been between 4.7 - 5.0 mi/kwh since we got it. So perhaps my miles are a bit inflated for my numbers based on the average driver's efficiency. In other data, I also almost never quick charge (done it maybe 5 times) and my daily charging habits are to charge up to 100% at work with an end timer of around 4:00 PM and then do the round trip back home and to work again, getting to work with about 35% left. So I think I'm being about as easy as I can on my pack.

Since no 2015 cars (that I know of) have lost a bar yet, I think there's nothing we can do but wait and see... Maybe I'll be first?

 

[Jedlacks]

My '15 was also made in 4/14, and these are my numbers, slightly different.

267 GIDS
20.7 kwh
97.2 SOC
91% SOH
86.86% HX
56.87 AHR

19,000 miles

I don't sweat the numbers, or the bars, as I put 1700+ miles a month on it since I bought it used in May of this year. When it can't do 30 miles one way I will but a new battery and/or give it to my son to drive to high school.

The numbers dropped when it got cooler, but I will still drive it after I buy a Model S in a few months. This essentially is my work car, because the wear and tear of Atlanta traffic takes a toll on cars.

 

[Phatcat73]

Phoenix car update:

11/13/16 - 15,742 miles, AHr 53.19; Batt Temp AVG 83; SOH 85%; 247 GIDS; 19.1 kWh remaining @ 100%

in comparison to previous readings:
07/31/16 - 13,675 miles, AHr 56.83; Batt Temp AVG 97; SOH 92%; 264 GIDS; 20.5 kWh remaining @ 100%
04/22/16 - 11,371 miles, AHr 57.07; Batt Temp AVG 92; SOH 91%;
03/26/16 - 11,026 miles, AHr 58.73; Batt Temp AVG 90; SOH 94%;
11/13/15 - 8,825 miles, AHr 58.85; Batt Temp AVG 78; SOH 94%;

Next reading in March 2017; suspect it'll lose it's first bar.

As compared to our Chicago 2013 Leaf, which lost it's first bar on 09/04/16 at 38,540 miles, AHr 54.16; SOH 82%, which is quite a bit of a drop in the 8 months from:
01/17/16 - 33,212 miles, AHr 63.65; Batt Temp AVG 36; SOH 97%;

2015 Degradation warranty expires 8/2019 and hoping to time a new battery by then. 2.5 years to go... So much for Lizard battery... :roll:

 

[tkdbrusco]

Phoenix car update:

11/13/16 - 15,742 miles, AHr 53.19; Batt Temp AVG 83; SOH 85%; 247 GIDS; 19.1 kWh remaining @ 100%

in comparison to previous readings:
07/31/16 - 13,675 miles, AHr 56.83; Batt Temp AVG 97; SOH 92%; 264 GIDS; 20.5 kWh remaining @ 100%
04/22/16 - 11,371 miles, AHr 57.07; Batt Temp AVG 92; SOH 91%;
03/26/16 - 11,026 miles, AHr 58.73; Batt Temp AVG 90; SOH 94%;
11/13/15 - 8,825 miles, AHr 58.85; Batt Temp AVG 78; SOH 94%;

Next reading in March 2017; suspect it'll lose it's first bar.

As compared to our Chicago 2013 Leaf, which lost it's first bar on 09/04/16 at 38,540 miles, AHr 54.16; SOH 82%, which is quite a bit of a drop in the 8 months from:
01/17/16 - 33,212 miles, AHr 63.65; Batt Temp AVG 36; SOH 97%;

2015 Degradation warranty expires 8/2019 and hoping to time a new battery by then. 2.5 years to go... So much for Lizard battery... :roll:

Interesting that you are at 53.19 AHr and 85% SOH? I'm at 56 AHr and just below 85% SOH. Judging by your numbers and the fact that you still have 12 bars, my guess would be that AHr is the number used on the 2015 models to measure when that happens.

 

[manidhan]

Interesting that you are at 53.19 AHr and 85% SOH? I'm at 56 AHr and just below 85% SOH. Judging by your numbers and the fact that you still have 12 bars, my guess would be that AHr is the number used on the 2015 models to measure when that happens.

On Page 59, I wrote this:
"Up until 2014 models (and few 2015), the formula
SoH= Ahr/66.25 matched the reported SoH and Ahr numbers

From 2015
SoH=Ahr/62.25 works better (at least after a year or so).

Almost, all numbers in battery degrade wiki follows this. While I understand, SoH is taken directly from OBD2 (and no calculation involved), I am surprised at this correlation."

It appears, your car follows
SoH=AHr/66.25 , i.e., 56/66.25=84%

while Phatcat's car follows
SoH=AHr/62.25 , i.e., 53.19/62.25=85%


As I mentioned, I continue to amaze at this correlation - with new data (Yours and Phatcat's). There is something here. Can't put a finger on it.

 

[Phatcat73]

Well my build date is 6/14, however it's known Nissan tweaks the battery chemistries multiple times in a model year. In any case when the first bar drops we'll have a better idea which leaf spy data point to follow.

 

[tkdbrusco]

I wanted to add a bit more data to this situation.

Here's the stats I pulled form my buddy's 2013 when his bar dropped about a month ago. Once again this was a car mfg 6/13 and had about 37K miles when the bar dropped. I wasn't able to take the reading at 100%. His dash was reading 39% charge at this.

95 GIDS
7.36 kwh
45.49 SOC
84.53% SOH
83.34% HX
56.01 Ahr

And here's the reading on mine as of yesterday. MY 2015 S Mfg 4/14 and currently has 38300mi on it. I intentionally took a reading at exactly 95 GIDS for an accurate comparison. My dash was reading 36% at this point.

95 GIDS
7.36 kwh
42.23% SOC
84.79% SOH
85.22% HX
56.18 AHr

So what does this tell me? That at nearly identical AHr and SOH readings, my battery has a little over 3% more capacity than his. I took a 100% reading of his car back in June, when he was considering buying it after his lease expired and it was 254 at max GIDS. So My guess is that the whole comparison of the 66.2 vs. 62.9 AHr readings is probably accurate for the 2015 chemistry. It would seem that the differential in those two numbers is greater than it should be for the 3-4% difference we are experiencing at similar numbers, but when you also factor in the 11 GIDS difference between 281 and 292 (max readings on new 2013 and 2015 cars respectively), this does add up.

My guess is that Nissan is basing that bar drop on the percentage of loss on EPA range at the same 15.5% measure. The fact that the 2015 likely had a bit more unused capacity and started off at 292 GIDS, is factored in.

I'd guess that an Ahr of between 53-53.5 is probably about where that bar goes.

 

[o00scorpion00o]

This is my battery after 53,000 kms, (32,932 miles) not bad eah ?

AH and health goes up and down but it was 65.5 delivered in January 2015 after some use went up to 67 ah and now at 64.22

 

[o00scorpion00o]

Here's a screen shot not long after delivery.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

:mrgreen: wow! You win!

 

[LeafMuranoDriver]

Practically as good as new, o00scorpion00o!!

 

[o00scorpion00o]

Yes I am happy, and I drive it quiet hard. 60-70-80 mph for 44 miles to work and back, nearly 90 miles total. I like planting the throttle also and enjoy that torque.

I get to work from 100% to about 30-45% and home the same. No doubt my driving habits will have a long term effect due to the extra cycling.

I have seen a 2014 Leaf last year with 40,000 miles and way more DC charges and 99% health.

Charging at 6.6 Kw in work does seem to help stats and DC charging.

DId ye hear about the 40 Kwh Renault Zoe ? available to order now, shame Nissan did not bring out a 40 Kwh yet. Though perhaps they can't using an AESC battery ? perhaps energy density and cost are a factor and one reason they are selling their share in AESC. It's a shame really because the current 24 Kwh Leaf battery seems to suffer a lot capacity loss than the LG Chem battery in the 22 Kwh Zoe. So hopefully the 40 Kwh Zoe will be better which I am sure will because a 40 Kwh battery will not be stressed as much or cycled as much.

It's a shame the ZOe was not released in the U.S and it's a shame it's only 90 Hp. Typical Euro box thinking. Really cute car though and a brilliant 44 Kw AC charger.