2015: Battery Data Report @ 100% Charge

[philip]

I wonder if the 373.71V matches the voltage of a 30kWh pack at ~69% SOC. (24kWh*.865/30kWh)

At 96 cell pairs, you would be 3.89V/cell, anyone know what SOC that should be?

Edit - checked in my history it's about 3.89V/cell is about 45% SOC. Something is strange/different with his battery or maybe leafspy is reading something wrong??

 

[o00scorpion00o]

Mine are at 395v.

Could your pack be some kind of lower voltage experiment?

I would love to know but I doubt it.

 

[o00scorpion00o]

I wonder if the 373.71V matches the voltage of a 30kWh pack at ~69% SOC. (24kWh*.865/30kWh)

At 96 cell pairs, you would be 3.89V/cell, anyone know what SOC that should be?

Edit - checked in my history it's about 3.89V/cell is about 45% SOC. Something is strange/different with his battery or maybe leafspy is reading something wrong??

Could very well be leaf spy related.

The funny thing is that it did not show 67.3 Ah for a long time, I saw it vary from 63-65 ah for a good while and now 67.3 ah again.

Here's a very early screen shot not long after getting the Leaf.

 

[tkdbrusco]

Does anyone know how the wifi works in the cars? Would it be possible for Nissan to pull data from batteries in the field for testing of different chemistries? My guess is that they would be able to on SV and SL cars, but not on S, since they don't have that feature built in. On the early 2015 models, there's a solid chance that they put several different packs out into the field with different chemistries and then are monitoring them? This could be a 30kwh? It could be a different chemistry lizard? It could just be an old stock 2014 pack that wound up in a 2015 car? Whatever it is, 229 GIDS on a 2015 car this young, even in a warm climate, is way way out of the ordinary. I would investigate further.

 

[manidhan]

I am very concerned about my battery and the potential for getting a battery replacement under warranty.

I still have only lost one bar. With Nissan's stated 15% loss of capacity for the 1st bar and 6.25% loss for each subsequent bar I have projected my AHr at 8 bars to be the following. I have calculated it based upon the 15%, 6.25%, 6.25%, 6.25% loss of capapcity (Ahr) and using two case assumptions.

Assume I just lost the 1st bar:

(67.36-49.10)=18.26 Ahr therefore (using 15%) my loss is 1.217 AHr/%. Given this, at 33.75% battery capacity loss I will have lost 41.07 AHr. So I will have (67-36-41.07)=26.29 AHr left. Or 39% of original capacity. Damn! Ok, I realize this is the worste case scenario...

.........

I am confused with your calculation. If you equate 18.26 AHr (that you lost up until now) as 15% of the battery (Bold), the resulting original battery capacity must be 18.26/0.15=121.73Ahr. This is very high. Typically, first bar loss can occur between 53.75 and 56Ahr. You can find lot of posts on this range. So, using 49.1 Ahr skews your numbers a lot. As a result of this miscalculation, following happened....

.... Given this, at 33.75% battery capacity loss I will have lost 41.07 AHr. So I will have (67-36-41.07)=26.29 AHr left. Or 39% of original capacity..........

A 33.75% loss in capacity results in 61% loss capacity?. I am not following your procedure. It's confusing. Sorry! From what I understand, You calculated what would be Ahr loss at 33.75%. From the result, I am not sure why you are reverse calculating battery capacity again. Isn't that what you started with (33.75)? Anyways, because of the above mistake, the reverse calculation shows 61% loss.

 

[tkdbrusco]

Here's my battery bar loss predication numbers for 2015 MY cars.

2011/12/early13 cars start with 66.5 Ahr and 281 GIDs
late2013/2014 cars start with 67.36 Ahr and 284 GIDs
2015 cars theoretically start with 69.24 if you base that on the max 292 GIDs, although I don't see any posts about cars having this high of AHr.

Max kWh capacity on the 2015 is 22.6 kWh. Based on the advertised 24kwh pack, there's 5.8% reserve "degradable" capacity. So if you assume that the first bar drop represents 15.5% drop of real driving range, then you would calculate the bar drop on 20.8% of AHr drop.

This would mean that the 2015 would lose bar 12 at either 54.8 AHr if you use the 69.24 number or 53.34 AHr if you use the 67.36 Ahr number.

My car dipped down as low as 54.88 Ahr for one day this winter and had 257 GIDs at that AHr. 257 GIDs is way higher than most early MY cars with first bar drops, so I'm going to guess that 53.34 AHr or thereabouts is the bar drop number for 2015 cars.

I guess I'll find out sometime in the next year for sure?

I'm really leaning towards a conclusion that supposes that the Lizard is nothing more than a 25-26kwh battery advertised as a 24kwh battery. They may have modified the chemistry slightly but just figures they'd add in a lit more to chew away at instead.

 

[o00scorpion00o]

Checked LeafSpy yesterday, 65.5 AH, not surprising after a few days not driving much. 283 Gids, never saw more than 284 on a full charge.

One thing that I find strange is that Leaf Spy will not show the AH and Hx etc until about 20% of the battery has been used ? I only notice this after a recent update.

 

[Anonymous]

I am very concerned about my battery and the potential for getting a battery replacement under warranty.

I still have only lost one bar. With Nissan's stated 15% loss of capacity for the 1st bar and 6.25% loss for each subsequent bar I have projected my AHr at 8 bars to be the following. I have calculated it based upon the 15%, 6.25%, 6.25%, 6.25% loss of capapcity (Ahr) and using two case assumptions.

Assume I just lost the 1st bar:

(67.36-49.10)=18.26 Ahr therefore (using 15%) my loss is 1.217 AHr/%. Given this, at 33.75% battery capacity loss I will have lost 41.07 AHr. So I will have (67-36-41.07)=26.29 AHr left. Or 39% of original capacity. Damn! Ok, I realize this is the worste case scenario...

.........

I am confused with your calculation. If you equate 18.26 AHr (that you lost up until now) as 15% of the battery (Bold), the resulting original battery capacity must be 18.26/0.15=121.73Ahr. This is very high. Typically, first bar loss can occur between 53.75 and 56Ahr. You can find lot of posts on this range. So, using 49.1 Ahr skews your numbers a lot. As a result of this miscalculation, following happened....

.... Given this, at 33.75% battery capacity loss I will have lost 41.07 AHr. So I will have (67-36-41.07)=26.29 AHr left. Or 39% of original capacity..........

A 33.75% loss in capacity results in 61% loss capacity?. I am not following your procedure. It's confusing. Sorry! From what I understand, You calculated what would be Ahr loss at 33.75%. From the result, I am not sure why you are reverse calculating battery capacity again. Isn't that what you started with (33.75)? Anyways, because of the above mistake, the reverse calculation shows 61% loss.

Sorry my calculation was confusing. However, I don't believe I made any errors.

Given I do not know when I lost my 1st bar I was trying to bound my potential losses by calculating the worst and best case scenarios for Ahr/%capacity loss. In the first case, assuming I just lost the 1st bar, resulted in losing 1.2 Ahr/%cl. In the second case, assuming I'm just about to lose the 2nd bar, my losses would be 0.86Ahr/%cl. So then I used each of these values to project my Ahr values at 33.75% loss.

If anyone would like to project where my Ahr reading will be at my 4th bar loss by another method I'd love to see it.

 

[Anonymous]

Here are my current stats after a Level 2 charge to full ( still only 1 bar lost ):

Date: 12/13/2016
Mileage: 35,764
GIDs: 219
kWh: 17.0
SOC: 102.3%
SOH: 76%
HX: 58.19%
Ahr: 47.73
Avg Battery Temp: N/A

Oh, and someone asked what my useful range is now... My average is 3.3 m/kW so the answer is 56 miles!

Ugh !!!!

 

[manidhan]

Here are my current stats after a Level 2 charge to full ( still only 1 bar lost ):

Date: 12/13/2016
Mileage: 35,764
GIDs: 219
kWh: 17.0
SOC: 102.3%
SOH: 76%
HX: 58.19%
Ahr: 47.73
Avg Battery Temp: N/A

Oh, and someone asked what my useful range is now... My average is 3.3 m/kW so the answer is 56 miles!

Ugh !!!!

Without actual data, it might be difficult. But, the battery degradation wiki shown here
http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Battery_Capacity_Loss
for your area (palm springs) matches close to what you have in terms of battery health at the end of 2 years.

For your AHr, I expected bar three loss based on this post
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=21528#p455984
Surprised, you have lost only one bar. Good luck.

 

[tkdbrusco]

Here are my current stats after a Level 2 charge to full ( still only 1 bar lost ):

Date: 12/13/2016
Mileage: 35,764
GIDs: 219
kWh: 17.0
SOC: 102.3%
SOH: 76%
HX: 58.19%
Ahr: 47.73
Avg Battery Temp: N/A

Oh, and someone asked what my useful range is now... My average is 3.3 m/kW so the answer is 56 miles!

Ugh !!!!

Without actual data, it might be difficult. But, the battery degradation wiki shown here
http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Battery_Capacity_Loss
for your area (palm springs) matches close to what you have in terms of battery health at the end of 2 years.

For your AHr, I expected bar three loss based on this post
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=21528#p455984
Surprised, you have lost only one bar. Good luck.

Ok, I think I cracked this bar loss stat thing on 2015 Lizard cars. Let's put ourselves in Nissan's mindset... The first 2011 leaf was a 24kwh car and started with 281 GIDS. They based the initial range estimate off of that capacity. Due to the 80% charge setting, they had to put it at 74 mi, but later upped it to 85 when they removed that setting. The 2103 cars had 287 max GIDS and the 2015 cars had 292 max GIDS, yet still no increase in EPA range... why? Because this allows them to drop bars at the same numbers as the early cars without having to change the EPA mileage, or publish any stats about hidden capacity, etc... This is the only scenario that makes sense for his numbers. If you multiply 281 GIDS by .78 (indicating a 22% capacity loss for 2 bars), you get just about 219 GIDS. So basically, you'll drop bar #2 any day now.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

Checked LeafSpy yesterday, 65.5 AH, not surprising after a few days not driving much. 283 Gids, never saw more than 284 on a full charge.

Pulled this from IBeLeaf's signature. It's a 2014, and only the second car besides yours that I've seen showing 66 Ahr with no degradation at 50 k miles. But shows 395 volts.

Blue 2014 SV
50,000 miles on 11/22/16
12 bars 284 GIDS
66.015AHr 100%SOH 101.15Hx 395.91V
2150 L1/L2 130 QC
daily travel 15-125 miles
most months include 200+mile days
usually charge to 100% overnight
TOU rate plan with power company

 

[IBeLeaf2]

Checked LeafSpy yesterday, 65.5 AH, not surprising after a few days not driving much. 283 Gids, never saw more than 284 on a full charge.

Pulled this from IBeLeaf's signature. It's a 2014, and only the second car besides yours that I've seen showing 66 Ahr with no degradation at 50 k miles. But shows 395 volts.

Blue 2014 SV
50,000 miles on 11/22/16
12 bars 284 GIDS
66.015AHr 100%SOH 101.15Hx 395.91V
2150 L1/L2 130 QC
daily travel 15-125 miles
most months include 200+mile days
usually charge to 100% overnight
TOU rate plan with power company

Thanks for getting me off my butt and posting here. I had been thinking I should ask whether my battery stats were unusual. Compared with what I've seen, they seem to be.

I have not babied this battery at all. I've had it down to turtle 5 or 6 times. Twice running out out of power completely. First time on slushy roads when I didn't know better. Second time 800' from my driveway. I was in turtle and shifted into neutral to coast down a hill. Found out that even though I had 6 Gids left, you can't shift into D when it's that low. Obviously range anxiety is not a problem I have!

I've wondered if regularly drawing the battery down below 50% is better than charging sooner.

Also, the 12V battery has been disconnected a number of times. I know that can affect the GOM. Does it also affect what LeafSpy records?

And... I am IBeLeaf2 not IBeLeaf. IBeLeaf, I believe is no longer active here.

 

[DaveEV]

I've wondered if regularly drawing the battery down below 50% is better than charging sooner.

The lower your average state of charge is, the longer your battery should last.

 

[Bufordleaf]

My latest stats after a recent L2 charge to 100%. This is a 2015 S w/QC that we definitely don't baby. Usually don't drop below 50% SOC during the day although we do that more often during the winter, and we charge to 100% overnight just about every night. Plus the primary driver is my teenage daughter, so there's a lot of "lead foot, hard brake" routines. All in all I'm pretty happy with the way this battery is holding up after 2 hot Atlanta summers. Just wish Nissan would announce support for 30 kWh batteries in pre-2016 Leafs so that one day (down the road many years) I can upgrade the battery. That's if I decide to buy it a year from now, may just turn it in when the lease expires and get a Bolt or something else.

Odo. 22,483
Gids. 276
kWh. 21.4
Soc. 97.0
SOH. 94%
Hx. 90.50
Ahr. 58.77
Avg Temp. 55.6
# QCs. 51

 

[manidhan]

Consistent with what others found, I too saw increase in GIDS and AHr after three days of full charge and couple of QCs.
Ever since I bought (11-2014), I never charged in QCs or above 80%. Drove below LBW once (18%). With that history, my stats on Dec 24, 2016 at 100% charge were

12/04/2016
Miles 24554
AHr 54.56
SoH 87%
Hx: 81.88
GIDS: 256
Remain KWh: 19.8
Average Temp: 61.7

I was little worried, considering that I have been babying the battery. With AHr and SoH, I expected first bar loss in a couple of months. After reading bunch of posts about charging it to 100% to rebalance the pack, I tried it three consecutive days (after regular commute that drained to about 40%). On couple of those trips, I charged with QC too. Here are the stats now

01/04/2017
Miles: 25247
AHr: 58.25
SoH: 93%
Hx: 89.52
Gids: 272
Remain KwH: 21.1
Average Temp: 62.1

I have gone back to 80% charging. The value of AHr has been at this level for nearly two weeks now. Not sure how long this will last. :?: Fingers crossed!

 

[o00scorpion00o]

Consistent with what others found, I too saw increase in GIDS and AHr after three days of full charge and couple of QCs.
Ever since I bought (11-2014), I never charged in QCs or above 80%. Drove below LBW once (18%). With that history, my stats on Dec 24, 2016 at 100% charge were

12/04/2016
Miles 24554
AHr 54.56
SoH 87%
Hx: 81.88
GIDS: 256
Remain KWh: 19.8
Average Temp: 61.7

I was little worried, considering that I have been babying the battery. With AHr and SoH, I expected first bar loss in a couple of months. After reading bunch of posts about charging it to 100% to rebalance the pack, I tried it three consecutive days (after regular commute that drained to about 40%). On couple of those trips, I charged with QC too. Here are the stats now

01/04/2017
Miles: 25247
AHr: 58.25
SoH: 93%
Hx: 89.52
Gids: 272
Remain KwH: 21.1
Average Temp: 62.1

I have gone back to 80% charging. The value of AHr has been at this level for nearly two weeks now. Not sure how long this will last. :?: Fingers crossed!

You'll have to use the DC charger a lot more than this to increase your reported leafspy stats. Even charging at 6.6 Kw as much as you can will make a notable difference, of course that also means driving a lot. I drive 80-85 miles a day son to be about 90.

 

[sendler2112]

Ever since I bought (11-2014), I never charged in QCs or above 80%.

How much out of balance was the pack?

 

[o00scorpion00o]

Mostly when I charge I do not set an end timer , setting an end timer risks not allowing the battery to fully balance.

I only set an end timer when I want to charge to 50-70 % when I don't need a full or 80% charge.

 

[manidhan]

Ever since I bought (11-2014), I never charged in QCs or above 80%.

How much out of balance was the pack?

I looked it up - weird. It was 11mV when AHr was low (54.56AHr) and 15 mV now (AHr 58.25).