900 mile Christmas Marathon

[Staque]

The OP asked me about my cord. I actually made my own cord economically because I got a good deal on the cable. However, that deal has ended.

So now, I recommend buying a cable here:
http://www.lockingpowercords.com/Products/82-30a250v-locking-power-cords.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

We use those cables in datacenters at work. That link is for their L6-30 cords, which you'd use with a 2013 EVSEUpgrade. You can get an L6-20 cord instead for a 16A EVSEUpgrade.

Just remember that the safety begins *AFTER* the EVSE, since you will probably not have a GFI breaker. So you don't want the socket end getting wet (or stick your fingers in). The socket connection to the EVSE plug will necessarily be outdoors, so you want to make sure it's clean and dry and away from children and stuff like that.

 

[IraqiInvaderGnr]

The OP asked me about my cord. I actually made my own cord economically because I got a good deal on the cable. However, that deal has ended.

So now, I recommend buying a cable here:
http://www.lockingpowercords.com/Products/82-30a250v-locking-power-cords.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

We use those cables in datacenters at work. That link is for their L6-30 cords, which you'd use with a 2013 EVSEUpgrade. You can get an L6-20 cord instead for a 16A EVSEUpgrade.

Just remember that the safety begins *AFTER* the EVSE, since you will probably not have a GFI breaker. So you don't want the socket end getting wet (or stick your fingers in). The socket connection to the EVSE plug will necessarily be outdoors, so you want to make sure it's clean and dry and away from children and stuff like that.

I have a aeroviroment evse which has a Nema 6-50 connection. I also have a adapter which converts from 6-50 to NEMA 14-50. I guess I should have restated that. I try to find a place to buy an adapter (don't trust myself that much to make my own).

My evse allows me take full advantage of my 6.6kwh charger.

 

[Staque]

Ok, sorry, I don't know why I got the idea your portable EVSE was a EVSE upgrade.

 

[IraqiInvaderGnr]

Okay I may have a small problem. My evse aeroviroment has a Nema 6-50 plug on it so I was going to buy an adapter but started wondering will me evse work with a 30 amp outlet? I know you can go from 30 amps to 50 amps but to go the other way I would imagine be a problem. Anyone got a clue on this. I was hoping I wouldn't have to get the evse upgrade but want to be able to use dryer outlets which are 30 amps.

 

[KJD]

Okay I may have a small problem. My evse aeroviroment has a Nema 6-50 plug on it so I was going to buy an adapter but started wondering will me evse work with a 30 amp outlet? I know you can go from 30 amps to 50 amps but to go the other way I would imagine be a problem. Anyone got a clue on this. I was hoping I wouldn't have to get the evse upgrade but want to be able to use dryer outlets which are 30 amps.

Remember Volts * Amp = Watts
as in
240 volts * 27.5 Amps = 6600 watt LEAF charger or 6.6kw

The car will never pull 30 amps anyway.

 

[RegGuheert]

Okay I may have a small problem. My evse aeroviroment has a Nema 6-50 plug on it so I was going to buy an adapter but started wondering will me evse work with a 30 amp outlet? I know you can go from 30 amps to 50 amps but to go the other way I would imagine be a problem. Anyone got a clue on this.

No problem.

I was hoping I wouldn't have to get the evse upgrade but want to be able to use dryer outlets which are 30 amps.

Please note that there are at least two types of dryer outlets out there. Three-pronged dryer outlets accept NEMA 10-30P plugs and four-pronged dryer outlets accept NEMA 14-30P plugs.

 

[IraqiInvaderGnr]

I'm going to go by the store today and check into making my own adapter after all. I didn't want to really go this route but not finding anyone who can professionally do this. I'm thinking it's due to the inherit nature of going from 50 amp to 30 amp. I should be able to do this as I wired my own outlet for the evse and this should be similar. And yes I'm going to make an adapter for 2 different dryer outlets NEMA 10-30 and NEMA L14-30. These two seem to be the most common. Thanks all!

 

[ELROY]

Okay I may have a small problem. My evse aeroviroment has a Nema 6-50 plug on it so I was going to buy an adapter but started wondering will me evse work with a 30 amp outlet? I know you can go from 30 amps to 50 amps but to go the other way I would imagine be a problem. Anyone got a clue on this. I was hoping I wouldn't have to get the evse upgrade but want to be able to use dryer outlets which are 30 amps.

Remember Volts * Amp = Watts
as in
240 volts * 27.5 Amps = 6600 watt LEAF charger or 6.6kw

The car will never pull 30 amps anyway.

I'm pretty sure my 2012 LEAF may charge at 3.3kw..but pulls closer to 3.8kw from the wall. So not sure if the 2013 doubles that current. Or possibly it only draws 6.6kw at the wall? If not..it would be too much for 30amp service.

When I was charging in North Hollywood...a couple in their LEAF were driving from NAPA valley on their way to San Diego. Probably a good 700 miles each way.

 

[KJD]

I'm pretty sure my 2012 LEAF may charge at 3.3kw..but pulls closer to 3.8kw from the wall.

Yes my 2012 SL does the same thing.

So not sure if the 2013 doubles that current. Or possibly it only draws 6.6kw at the wall? If not..it would be too much for 30amp service.

It is actually a little less than double. In 2013 Nissan chose to measure 6.6kW from the wall socket. Someone in marketing decided that 6.6 sounded better than 6.0.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=13008#p295770" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[Turnover]

As a rough guide where QC facilities are available, I have experienced EV long distance driving time as 2 x ICE. That is in the Pacific NW which includes hills, difficulties finding EV stations from the map, and occasional problems with the stations including lineups and calls to EV tech support. Temps in the upper forties, mid fifties. Yes, the battery does warm up some over time, but not near to where it would be a problem - per the meter.

 

[klapauzius]

That sounds like a great adventure and I am curious to hear how the trip goes.
However, I think the OP miscalculated a bit on the charge rate. Even with a 6 kW onboard charger, there is no way you can recharge 80% in 2 h.

Assuming 100% efficiency, the most you can get into the car at 6 kW in 2 hours is 12 kWH. Assume due to cold temps an average of 3 miles/kWH, two hours of charging will give you 36 miles of range.
For a 900 mile trip this means 25 h of charging. Lets assume you drive the rest of the time at 60, your whole trip would take a minimum of 40 h. I would plan at least 2 full days for this.

 

[IraqiInvaderGnr]

That sounds like a great adventure and I am curious to hear how the trip goes.
However, I think the OP miscalculated a bit on the charge rate. Even with a 6 kW onboard charger, there is no way you can recharge 80% in 2 h.

Assuming 100% efficiency, the most you can get into the car at 6 kW in 2 hours is 12 kWH. Assume due to cold temps an average of 3 miles/kWH, two hours of charging will give you 36 miles of range.
For a 900 mile trip this means 25 h of charging. Lets assume you drive the rest of the time at 60, your whole trip would take a minimum of 40 h. I would plan at least 2 full days for this.

2 hours to 80% is a good figure I believe. Today I got it down to 10% left and started charging. After 2.5 hours carwings showed 11 bars. Rarely do you actually ever get it down to completely empty and with about 10% left you still have about 3 kwh in the battery. I do agree and leafspy proved every 10 minstrel charging equals 1 kwh.

This trip is more accurately a marathon consisting on 3 trips. First is about 350 miles then another for ~ 350 miles then final trip ~150 miles

 

[klapauzius]

2 hours to 80% is a good figure I believe. Today I got it down to 10% left and started charging. After 2.5 hours carwings showed 11 bars. Rarely do you actually ever get it down to completely empty and with about 10% left you still have about 3 kwh in the battery. I do agree and leafspy proved every 10 minstrel charging equals 1 kwh.

This trip is more accurately a marathon consisting on 3 trips. First is about 350 miles then another for ~ 350 miles then final trip ~150 miles

What miles/kWh are you getting in the current weather? This times the charge-rate (6 kW) will limit your top speed for much of the trip. I would not trust carwings, it is overly optimistic.

 

[LUXMAN]

Dude. Sounds painful. Just pony up the cash for Gas.

 

[IraqiInvaderGnr]

2 hours to 80% is a good figure I believe. Today I got it down to 10% left and started charging. After 2.5 hours carwings showed 11 bars. Rarely do you actually ever get it down to completely empty and with about 10% left you still have about 3 kwh in the battery. I do agree and leafspy proved every 10 minstrel charging equals 1 kwh.

This trip is more accurately a marathon consisting on 3 trips. First is about 350 miles then another for ~ 350 miles then final trip ~150 miles

What miles/kWh are you getting in the current weather? This times the charge-rate (6 kW) will limit your top speed for much of the trip. I would not trust carwings, it is overly optimistic.

3.5miles/kwh is my average in this cold weather. That's not driving conservatively though. I can easily get 4.0miles/kwh by driving conservatively. Shoot there was one hilly stretch for 15 miles where I only used 15% and that's doing top speed of 55mph. I do realize that I will have my top speed limited in parts of the marathon but I would disagree that it would be limited most of the marathon. Most of the roads I will be taking have a speed limit of 60mph and they are much less hilly than my commute to work. I have taken these roads before and know them very well. I feel confident that I will be able to make it. Sure my arrival times may be later but that's no big deal. It's an adventure and is much more than about saving a few bucks. In fact I've spent more on adapters and miscellaneous items needed for this trip than I would have spent on gas already.

On a interesting side note I drove and charged quite a bit yesterday and discovered that while driving the battery cools down and while charging it heats up (common knowledge I know) but what surprised me is how hot the battery got. According to leafspy the top temps in battery was 60F compared to 15F outside.

 

[stjohnh]

I drove our Leaf from Palo Alto to Truckee, CA, about 300 miles each way, with a BIG climb just before reaching Truckee. It was an adventure, I could have taken the ICE, but wanted to do a trip in the Leaf. Never ran out of juice, but several times went below VLBW and arrived at the charge station on "sparks." Trip was basically leave in the morning, drive about 250 miles to Colfax, spend night there w overnite L2 to 100%, then last 7000' climb to get to Truckee. Loved it, great adventure, and yes, would have been faster w ICE, but not as much fun.

 

[Leaf1]

Sounds like a great challenge. I think it is great that you are trying such a feat and breaking new ground, pushing the limits, etc. Best of luck, be safe, and keep us posted.

 

[TonyWilliams]

This trip is more accurately a marathon consisting on 3 trips. First is about 350 miles then another for ~ 350 miles then final trip ~150 miles

Where you're driving is flat as a pancake, so your only real enemies on this trip are cold and maybe wind. I've broken down your trip into three separate Google maps trips. Any leg that pushes past 60 miles in the cold, I would find an alternate. You need buffers, but more importantly, for best time management during the trip, you want to start at 100% at the beginning of each trip and that should be your longest leg. Then, you'll only charge to 80-90% for the subsequent legs.

NOTE: Most public charging is 208 volts, and will slow your charge rate. Campgrounds with NEMA 14-50R "50 amp service" will be 240 volts, but it's not uncommon to have much lower voltage. Measure the voltage under load every time to ensure you have a good plug. Never walk away from a campground charge sessions until you've ensured that the breaker won't pop after 5-10 minutes.

http://goo.gl/maps/rrjJe" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Time - Start —— - Treynor, IA
4+30 - 55 miles - Nebraska City, NE, 3.2 hours charging 240 volts 27.5 amps (6.6kW)
2+20 - 32 miles - Rock Port, 1.5 hours charging 240 volts 27.5 amps (6.6kW)
4+50 - 66 miles - St. Joseph, MO, 3.5 hours charging 240 volts 27.5 amps (6.6kW)
4+30 - 54 miles - Kansas City, MO, 3.2 hours charging 240 volts 27.5 amps (6.6kW)
6+40 - 86 miles - Sedalia, MO, 4.5 hours charging 240 volts 27.5 amps (6.6kW)
1+20 - 61 miles - Jefferson City, MO, charge overnight

24.2 hours, 355 miles Total

*****************************

http://goo.gl/maps/uXan8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Time - Start —— - Jefferson City, MO
2+20 - 32 miles - Columbia, MO, 1.5 hours charging 240 volts 27.5 amps (6.6kW)
4+50 - 65 miles - Bevier, MO, 3.5 hours charging 240 volts 27.5 amps (6.6kW)
2+10 - 26 miles - La Plata, MO, 1.5 hours charging 240 volts 27.5 amps (6.6kW)
0+50 - 13 miles - Kirksville, MO, 0.5 hours charging 240 volts 27.5 amps (6.6kW)
3+40 - 45 miles - Bloomfield, Iowa, 2.75 hours charging 240 volts 27.5 amps (6.6kW)
3+40 - 41 miles - Eddyville, Iowa, 2.75 hours charging 240 volts 27.5 amps (6.6kW)
2+10 - 27 miles - Pella, Iowa, 1.5 hours charging 240 volts 27.5 amps (6.6kW)
3+40 - 43 miles - Des Moines, Iowa, 2.75 hours charging 240 volts 27.5 amps (6.6kW)
3+50 - 49 miles - Ogden, Iowa, 3 hours charging 240 volts 27.5 amps (6.6kW)
1+10 - 57 miles - Humboldt, Iowa, charge overnight

30.3 hours, 396 miles Total

**************************

http://goo.gl/maps/tfisd" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Time - Start —— - Humboldt, Iowa
4+30 - 55 miles - Jefferson, Iowa, 3.2 hours charging 240 volts 27.5 amps (6.6kW)
4+50 - 65 miles - Elk Horn, Iowa, 3.5 hours charging 240 volts 27.5 amps (6.6kW)
1+10 - 53 miles - Treynor, Iowa, end


10.5 hours, 172 miles

************************
************************

The new 2013 LEAF with optional 27.5 amp charger will be about 6.6kW at 240 volts. I don't know if its been measured at 200 or 208 volts yet to see if it increases to 30 amps. You can't pull 27.5 - 30 amps continuous from a typical NEMA 10-30 or 14-30 dryer plug, or you will likely pop the breaker.

You need an EVSE that can be set to 24 amps for dryers.

**********************************************************************

Miles Gained per Hour Charging
Room temperature battery or warmer, new condition (no degradation)

Amps/Volts -- Where ---- 4 miles per kWh

12 / 120 ------- Any ------ 4.0 miles (supplied cable with car in USA/Canada)
12 / 208 ------ Public ----- 8.4 miles
12 / 240 ------ Home ----- 9.6 miles
16 / 208 ------ Public ----- 11.1 miles ****
16 / 240 ------ Home ----- 12.9 miles
20 / 208 ------ Public ----- 14.1 miles
20 / 240 ------ Home ----- 16.3 miles
25 / 208 ------ Public ----- 17.8 miles
25 / 240 ------ Home ----- 20.6 miles
30 / 208 ------ Public ----- 21.4 miles (**unverified at 30 amps**)
30 / 240 ------ Home ----- 22.7 miles (limited to 27.5 amps)

**** will likely pull 18 amps at 208 volts****
**I don't know if its been measured at 200 or 208 volts yet to see if it increases to 30 amps.**


**********************************************************************


Hours to charge LEAF with warm new condition battery
From Turtle mode ("dead") to 100%, Room temperature battery or warmer, new condition (no degradation)


Amps/Volts -- Where ---- Time

12 / 120 ------- Any ------ 22.8 hours (supplied cable with car in USA/Canada)
12 / 208 ------ Public ----- 11.4 hours
12 / 240 ------ Home ------ 9.9 hours
16 / 208 ------ Public ------ 8.6 hours
16 / 240 ------ Home ------ 7.4 hours
20 / 208 ------ Public ------ 6.7 hours
20 / 240 ------ Home ------ 5.9 hours
25 / 208 ------ Public ------ 5.4 hours
25 / 240 ------ Home ------ 4.7 hours
30 / 208 ------ Public ------ 4.5 hours (unverified at 30 amps**)
30 / 240 ------ Home ------ 4.2 hours (limited to 27.5 amps)


**** will likely pull 18 amps at 208 volts****
**I don't know if its been measured at 200 or 208 volts yet to see if it increases to 30 amps.**

 

[cwerdna]

You need buffers, but more importantly, for best time management during the trip, you want to start at 100% at the beginning of each trip and that should be your longest leg. Then, you'll only charge to 80-90% for the subsequent legs.

Makes sense, if OP hasn't seen how the charge tapers as the battery gets to near full, he can look at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=338038#p338038" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

 

[smkettner]

Okay I may have a small problem. My evse aeroviroment has a Nema 6-50 plug on it so I was going to buy an adapter but started wondering will me evse work with a 30 amp outlet? I know you can go from 30 amps to 50 amps but to go the other way I would imagine be a problem. Anyone got a clue on this. I was hoping I wouldn't have to get the evse upgrade but want to be able to use dryer outlets which are 30 amps.

Yes your AV will work fine on 30a dryer outlets charging your LEAF. Fun part is the outlets could be either NEMA 10-30 or 14-30. Although the 14-30 is easy if you have a modular 14-50..... just remove the unused neutral pin and it will fit both 14-50 & 14-30. But you will still need to adapt to the 10-30 that is the older but more common style. Technically you should have 40a supply but you should be fine on 30a for temporary plug in service.

30 amp RV outlet looks similar to 10-30 but is designated "NEMA 30-TT" for RV use only and just slow charging 120 volts.

BTW, I also recommend leaving a day early.