WetEV
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5) up to 10% in first 12-18 months
30% loss at around 100k miles/8 years
30% loss at around 100k miles/8 years
Stoaty said:Oh, I am very comfortable giving information, but with what I know now, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who might spend considerable time in the hot San Fernando Valley. While I am glad I have my Leaf, I know how to baby it and take it as a challenge, just like keeping up my 5.7 miles/kwh (dash). Most people won't want to do that, and with the uncertainty about exactly how the temperature/capacity thing is going to play out, I won't say, "Yes, you should buy a Leaf." Even though I love my Leaf and am glad I got it when I did, if I were reading the forum now and hadn't bought a Leaf I would almost certainly decide to wait and see what happens with the 2013 model (and wait for further info on battery pack degradation and Nissan's response). If I wouldn't buy one now, how can I recommend that someone else do so?DaveinOlyWA said:aaaah, this is the point of the thread. why are you no longer comfortable? you now know much more than you did before; some bad, some good. either way, you should feel more comfortable in making a recommendation to a potential owner.
palmermd said:This thread should shed some light on what people were expecting before they purchased/leased. I browsed through hoping to read some comments from folks in Arizona, and unfortunately there was only a few comments from LeafFan on page 5. Most of the other posters were from CA and WA.
What is clear is that most people expected Nissan to warranty the pack if it fell to 70 percent within 5 years. Some even claimed that is what the warranty says. The warranty clearly states capacity is not covered, and Nissan's response so far has followed that interpretation.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1709&hilit=capacity+warranty" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Also interesting to note that 64% of the poll respondents said they would not even purchase the car unless there was a warranty. Wonder if that happened?
hill said:Acceptable capcity loss turns on what kind of range you get - which in turn is based on how efficiently you drive. Since my commute iS only 19 miles - and I'm getting 5miles / kWh - acceptable capacity loss would be 45 percent. Below 45% - simply won't work for us. I'm hoping that's not for another 7yrs. The way I baby The leaf - anything less than 7 more years (to hit 45% capacity remaining) to reach that threshold would be unacceptable.
I know - but God forbid anyone start another battery / capacity thread . . . . the whiners would go nuts - and so I was compelled to just glom onto one of the existing threads.DaveinOlyWA said:hill said:Acceptable capcity loss turns on what kind of range you get - which in turn is based on how efficiently you drive. Since my commute iS only 19 miles - and I'm getting 5miles / kWh - acceptable capacity loss would be 45 percent. Below 45% - simply won't work for us. I'm hoping that's not for another 7yrs. The way I baby The leaf - anything less than 7 more years (to hit 45% capacity remaining) to reach that threshold would be unacceptable.
not the question here! ... . . . . snip
DaveinOlyWA said:Since most of the forum's energy is now concentrated on "unacceptable" battery loss it really begs the question; what is acceptable? now, that is not as easy a question to answer as we might have thought 18 months ago especially now that i am a day short of 18 months and have none. do you feel cheated even if your loss is at a level considered "acceptable" back in Jan 2011?
i guess we should make a poll. keep in mind, all options assume no more than 20% in 5 years or 30% in 10 years. mileage is not dependent here as many studies show time to be the greatest factor assuming a "non abusive" relationship between owner and pack...
1) nothing in first year
2) nothing in first 18 months
3) nothing in first 2 years
4) up to 5% in first 12-18 months
5) up to 10% in first 12-18 months
While I agree with most of your post, I think the last sentence is a bit over the top. There might be a panicked sell off in Phoenix, but even there it is unlikely, since it appears that the market for used Leafs in Phoenix has pretty much dried up. I think owners in areas of the country that don't have the intense heat that some places in Arizona and Texas have will take a wait and see attitude, especially now that Nissan appears to be taking some steps to look into this problem and take it seriously. I do think they need to do something relatively quickly in order to prevent future sales from tanking as this problem becomes more widely known.GaslessInSeattle said:We are just now beginning to see the slow gears of a very large machine react to a problem that to many of us has been going on for quite some time now. Some patience will be required on our parts now and only time will tell if their response will be adequate to retain the devoted yet fickle group of EV enthusiast as competitors begin rolling out alternatives, with battery temperature management systems in particular. IMHO, Nissan must act much more quickly than they are accustom to if they are to avert irreversible damage to the brand. At this point, to avert a panicked sell off, all owners need assurance that anyone with dramatic capacity loss is going to be made whole, barring profound abuse of the vehicle.
Stoaty said:While I agree with most of your post, I think the last sentence is a bit over the top. There might be a panicked sell off in Phoenix, but even there it is unlikely, since it appears that the market for used Leafs in Phoenix has pretty much dried up. I think owners in areas of the country that don't have the intense heat that some places in Arizona and Texas have will take a wait and see attitude, especially now that Nissan appears to be taking some steps to look into this problem and take it seriously. I do think they need to do something relatively quickly in order to prevent future sales from tanking as this problem becomes more widely known.GaslessInSeattle said:We are just now beginning to see the slow gears of a very large machine react to a problem that to many of us has been going on for quite some time now. Some patience will be required on our parts now and only time will tell if their response will be adequate to retain the devoted yet fickle group of EV enthusiast as competitors begin rolling out alternatives, with battery temperature management systems in particular. IMHO, Nissan must act much more quickly than they are accustom to if they are to avert irreversible damage to the brand. At this point, to avert a panicked sell off, all owners need assurance that anyone with dramatic capacity loss is going to be made whole, barring profound abuse of the vehicle.
They will get MY Leaf when they pry it from my cold dead hands. :twisted: For my needs and in my climate, the Leaf will probably be useful to me for a good 10 years without a battery replacement.
mwalsh said:What the previous two guys said...I would call it "battery longevity anxiety". After a period of complacency I'm watching my pack like a hawk now, looking for any GID losses beyond the ones I saw this spring. So far, fingers crossed, nothing to report -I'm still managing to hit above 90% / 253 Gids when the pack is nicely balanced. Moreover, it's not really impacting my range all that much, if at all. When I allow for a subdued drive to/from work, like the ones I was making when I first got the car (no more than 65mph and gentle acceleration to speed). I'm still hitting fuel bar consumption at more or less the same mileage, and ending my commute with more or less the same fuel remaining.
I guess Thursday would have been a good example of this, and you can see the numbers in my Google Doc here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnSYHt_rpvYydGlLZ3dOZ1dfTlFRS2JsTlo1V1ptVHc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
0 Miles 90.7% 255 Gids 394 Volts
30.5 Miles 61.5% 173 Gids 380.5 Volts
61 Miles 30.9% 87 Gids 369 Volts
The only variable on this drive is my speeds were actually held down quite severely by heavy traffic. However, I've noticed that my driving style doesn't do my any favors in stop-and-go, and I usually do as well (or should that be as poorly?) at 65mph.
I also ended the day at 34 miles remaining on the GOM. And while we know the GOM is nonsense, the best GOM reading I arrived home with last year was 36 miles, on day 10 of ownership. This was prior to having the Gidometer, so I can't tell you what Gids and percent SOC was. Similarly I arrived home with just shy of 4 full fuel bars remaining, having started using bar 8 at 58.8 miles. This also compares very well to the first days of ownership, when I was documenting such things.
Of course, this lack in range loss can probably be explained by having full access to regenerative braking much earlier in the morning drive. And maybe to a slight changes in my driving style that have helped my efficiency creep up a hair.
Bottom line is that I still love my LEAF and am proud to drive it. I wouldn't want to give it up, and hope that it continues to fully meet my transportation needs for many years to come. I still very much appreciate Nissan taking this very important step, and hope above all hopes that this particular issue has resolution that satisfies "hot state" owners and allows Nissan to move forward with the LEAF and it's siblings/successors unencumbered.
DaveinOlyWA said:i am guessing your average highs are only in the mid 80's with occasional forays into the 90's? i have never seen more than 393 volts on mine.
so wondering if you have data on voltage earlier in the year?
="mwalsh...you can see the numbers in my Google Doc here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnSYHt_rpvYydGlLZ3dOZ1dfTlFRS2JsTlo1V1ptVHc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
0 Miles 90.7% 255 Gids 394 Volts
30.5 Miles 61.5% 173 Gids 380.5 Volts
61 Miles 30.9% 87 Gids 369 Volts...
mwalsh said:DaveinOlyWA said:i am guessing your average highs are only in the mid 80's with occasional forays into the 90's? i have never seen more than 393 volts on mine.
so wondering if you have data on voltage earlier in the year?
Always between 393 and 394 volts on a full charge.
Kind of hard to draw any conclusions without knowing what efficiency you drove at (mi/kWh).mwalsh said:I guess Thursday would have been a good example of this, and you can see the numbers in my Google Doc here:
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