Alt Currencies Taking Over as Big Banking Fails

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AndyH said:
I'm embarressed for you, Jason. It's clear you still have no idea what crypto is and is not. Finally, there's nothing 'private' about any of these - whether local or crypto.

Sorry, still no. Sadly.
Think you need to read Andy...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptocurrency
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_currency
An alternative currency (or private currency) is any currency used as an alternative to the dominant national or multinational currency systems. They are created by an individual, corporation, or organization, they can be created by national, state, or local governments, or they can arise naturally as people begin to use a certain commodity as a currency.

Aka... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Bitcoin

On 6 August 2013, Federal Judge Amos Mazzant of the Eastern District of Texas of the Fifth Circuit ruled that bitcoins are "a currency or a form of money" (specifically securities as defined by Federal Securities Laws), and as such were subject to the court's jurisdiction,[15][16] and Germany's Finance Ministry subsumed Bitcoins under the term "unit of account"—a financial instrument—though not as e-money or a functional currency, a classification nonetheless having legal and tax implications.

Why don't you read the crap you're shoveling?

There's nothing public about Bitcoin.. aka why is it so popular with the criminal underground you dope? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Because it's private, cannot be traced when stolen, etc...

Sounds like you lost your ass on it
 
JasonA said:
AndyH said:
I'm embarressed for you, Jason. It's clear you still have no idea what crypto is and is not. Finally, there's nothing 'private' about any of these - whether local or crypto.

Sorry, still no. Sadly.
Think you need to read Andy...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptocurrency
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_currency
An alternative currency (or private currency) is any currency used as an alternative to the dominant national or multinational currency systems. They are created by an individual, corporation, or organization, they can be created by national, state, or local governments, or they can arise naturally as people begin to use a certain commodity as a currency.

Aka... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Bitcoin

On 6 August 2013, Federal Judge Amos Mazzant of the Eastern District of Texas of the Fifth Circuit ruled that bitcoins are "a currency or a form of money" (specifically securities as defined by Federal Securities Laws), and as such were subject to the court's jurisdiction,[15][16] and Germany's Finance Ministry subsumed Bitcoins under the term "unit of account"—a financial instrument—though not as e-money or a functional currency, a classification nonetheless having legal and tax implications.

Why don't you read the crap you're shoveling?

There's nothing public about Bitcoin.. aka why is it so popular with the criminal underground you dope? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Because it's private, cannot be traced when stolen, etc...

Sounds like you lost your ass on it
It doesn't matter what a district judge called crypto. The IRS's FINAL ruling - in late March 2014 - is that it is an asset, not a currency. That was shown clearly in the crypto thread (hint - NOT this one), and was also mentioned in the article I linked here on charities.

Here's another:
http://www.marketplace.org/topics/economy/irs-labels-bitcoin-asset

And another:
IRS Says Bitcoin Is Property, Not Currency
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303949704579461502538024502
The Internal Revenue Service made its first pronouncement on the issue Tuesday, saying it will treat bitcoin and other virtual currencies like property such as stocks, and not currency,

You are full of random links and name calling, but really short on facts. Please take your feelings of crypto-inadequacy to the proper thread. Thanks in advance.
 
http://www.peakprosperity.com/blog/92313/fatal-flaw-centrally-issued-money

Today's Money Regimes Are Doomed To Failure
I hope you now understand that the current system of issuing money and credit intrinsically benefits the few at the expense of the many. This vast privilege and the equally vast inequality that is the only possible output of the system cannot be reformed away; it is intrinsic to centrally issued money and private banking.

The problem isn’t fiat money—currency that isn’t backed by scarce commodities; it’s centrally issued money that is distributed to the few at the expense of the many. This centrally created money is issued not to facilitate the production of goods and services and the demand that naturally arises from the expansion of the real economy, but to serve the state and its cronies.

Centrally issued money centralizes wealth and generates systemic inequality. This is equally true of all centrally issued currencies. But the inequity that is intrinsic to this system is politically, socially and financially destabilizing, and so this system is unsustainable.
 
Stumbled on this a few hours ago. The first part of this lecture series provides a very full view of why our economic system is challenged. Further hours are exploring responses to our combined ecologic, economic, and energy descent present and future.

http://www.eeecourse.org/
"As long as our economic system is based on chasing economic growth above all else, we are heading for environmental, and economic, disaster."

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLCp6fYPixU[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wi9Ve1nQ6H4[/youtube]
 
You really are wacked Andy... WetEV asked "How many Bitcoin threads do we need?"

What was your response Andy???? "THIS ISN'T A BITCOIN THREAD"

Yet your VERY 2nd POST and LINK is about PP taking BITCOIN that you push in this thread...

Oh Andy... Once Bitcoin and the others are gone what will you do??

Keep watching Shaffer and gold vids? :lol:
 
JasonA said:
You really are wacked Andy... WetEV asked "How many Bitcoin threads do we need?"

What was your response Andy???? "THIS ISN'T A BITCOIN THREAD"

Yet your VERY 2nd POST and LINK is about PP taking BITCOIN that you push in this thread...

Oh Andy... Once Bitcoin and the others are gone what will you do??

Keep watching Shaffer and gold vids? :lol:

Please refrain from personal insults.
 
In case this isn't generally known, here's a quick recap. The world's economies are either built on or facilitated by fossil fuels. The US hit peak (conventional) oil about 1972. Economists suggest it takes about 40 years for an energy descent to appear in the overall economy...and we had a very significant financial meltdown starting in 2008. This wasn't 'just' the breaking of a housing bubble, or 'just' a 'banking system behaving badly' bubble, or a 'shock doctrine gone wild' problem - this appears to be the confluence of peak fossil fuel and peak raw materials and peak food and peak everything else along with the collapse of ocean fisheries (90% are either fished to limit, already collapsed, or in danger of collapsing) and an acceleration of climate change symptoms. Though the media continues to report that we're out of the 'great recession', most of the new jobs are minimum wage or less, a large percentage of folks that are working are under employed, and close to 1/3 of Americans are still out of work as there are no jobs available. Significant portions of our infrastructure are failing but we don't have the money to repair or replace them. We have a number of areas where citizens are either running out of water, the water they can get is polluted and unsafe to drink, or don't have water at all. Wealth inequality, sea level rise, access to food...the 'economy' is working for some but dramatically failing a large portion of our citizens. This is happening all over the world.

As has already been linked in the first and subsequent posts, when larger systems fail, those that are left out in the cold build their own fires. This includes alternate ways of making financial transactions. That's the point of this thread - that a wide range of alternate currencies are appearing and/or expanding in response to the very real problem.

If any of the above seems new, I highly recommend that one invest a bit of time for either a book or video series called The Crash Course. It is still the best survey of the intersection of economy, energy, and environment.

Book
http://www.amazon.com/Crash-Course-Unsustainable-Economy-Environment/dp/047092764X

Youtube series playlist:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLRgTUN1zz_ofJoMx1rB6Z0EA1OwAGDRdR

http://www.peakprosperity.com/crashcourse
The Crash Course has provided millions of viewers with the context for the massive changes now underway, as economic growth as we've known it is ending due to depleting resources.

But it also offers real hope. Those individuals who take informed action today, while we still have time, can lower their exposure to these coming trends -- and even discover a better way of life in the process. We'll show you how.

Picture-71.png

http://www.donellameadows.org/archives/a-synopsis-limits-to-growth-the-30-year-update/

Welcome to Eaarth - not exactly like Earth, unfortunately...
 
Bankers gone wild.

http://projects.huffingtonpost.com/worldbank-evicted-abandoned

The bank’s commitment, it says, is to “do no harm” to people or the environment.

The World Bank has broken its promise.

Over the past decade, the bank has regularly failed to enforce its rules, with devastating consequences for some of the poorest and most vulnerable people on the planet, an investigation by the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists, The Huffington Post and other media partners has found.

The World Bank often neglects to properly review projects ahead of time to make sure communities are protected, and frequently has no idea what happens to people after they are removed. In many cases, it has continued to do business with governments that have abused their citizens, sending a signal that borrowers have little to fear if they violate the bank’s rules, according to current and former bank employees.

The scope of “involuntary resettlement,” as the bank calls it, is vast. From 2004 to 2013, the bank’s projects physically or economically displaced an estimated 3.4 million people, forcing them from their homes, taking their land or damaging their livelihoods, ICIJ’s analysis of World Bank records reveals.

The true figure is likely higher, because the bank often fails to count or undercounts the number of people affected by its projects.
 
Lest we forget...

Aug 2011
http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevesc...ions-biggest-bankruptcies-where-are-they-now/

The Great Recession's Biggest Bankruptcies: Where Are They Now?

The Great Recession, triggered when the subprime mortgage market collapsed and pricked the housing bubble, sparked a wave of bankruptcies, including some bigger than U.S. courts had ever seen. These are the biggest since the December 2007 start of the recession – according to the National Bureau of Economic Research – and where they, or their remnants, are today.

Lehman Brothers
Filing date: 9/15/08
Assets: $691.1 billion
Coming up on the three-year anniversary of its filing, Lehman’s best U.S. assets are now part of Barclays Capital, while Nomura also snapped up some of its businesses and BlackRock wound up acquiring its iShares ETF unit. Its collapse was the largest corporate bankruptcy in U.S. history.

Washington Mutual
Filing date: 09/26/08
Assets: $327.9 billion
The largest bank failure in U.S. history, WaMu’s $188 billion in deposits were seized by the FDIC, which sold all the company’s assets and liabilities to JPMorgan Chase for just $1.9 billion.

General Motors
Filing date: 06/01/09
Assets: $91 billion
Kept alive thanks to government bailout loans, the automaker left its worst assets with “Old GM” and returned to the public markets with a November 2010 offering. Treasury Department still owns 32% stake.

CIT Group
Filing date: 11/01/09
Assets: $80.4 billion
Back on the market in a cleaner form after a prepackaged bankruptcy, now under the leadership of former Merrill Lynch and NYSE CEO John Thain. Still restructuring in an effort to cleanse balance sheet of bad loans and lower its cost of capital.

Chrysler
Filing date: 04/30/09
Assets: $39.3 billion
Pushed into bankruptcy by the Obama Administration, which then enlisted Fiat and Sergio Marchionne to be partners in the effort to revive the car company. Treasury sold the last of its stake to Fiat at a loss in July.

Thornburg Mortgage
Filing date: 05/01/09
Assets: $36.5 billion
Changed its name to TMST, but still in bankruptcy proceedings. Transferred servicing of its mortgage loans to Select Portfolio Servicing in June 2010.

General Growth Properties
Filing date: 04/16/09
Assets: $29.6 billion
GGP emerged from bankruptcy in November 2009 and still operates a portfolio of regional shopping centers and malls as it did prior to its Chapter 11 filing. The company doesn’t look exactly the same though, having spun out master planned communities and other development properties into publicly-traded Howard Hughes Corp.

Lyondell Chemical
Filing date: 01/06/09
Assets: $27.4 billion
Filed after 2007 merger with Basell, then emerged from bankruptcy in 2010 with a deleveraged balance sheet and a new lease on life.

Colonial BancGroup
Filing date: 08/25/09
Assets: $25.8 billion
After a planned investment from Taylor Bean & Whitaker Mortgage fell through (that firm itself went bankrupt), the FDIC seized the company’s banking operations and sold the bulk of the assets to BB&T.

Capmark Financial Group
Filing date: 10/25/09
Assets: $20.6 billion
Capmark filed a reorganization plan in April 2011, which aims to have the company out of Chapter 11 by year end, and has sold off businesses like its real estate equity investment advisor and North American loan origination and servicing.

Ambac Financial Group
Filing date: 11/08/10
Assets: $18.9 billion
Recently extended a deadline for consideration of its restructuring plan by Wisconsin’s insurance regulator and Ambac Assurance to August 25. The regulators took over the bond insurer’s main subsidiary in March 2010 amid concerns that paying out claims tied to risky mortgage securities would drain its capital.

Guaranty Financial Group
Filing date: 08/27/09
Assets: $16.8 billion
Closed by the FDIC, Guaranty Financial’s deposits and assets were sold to BBVA Compass.

BankUnited Financial
Filing date: 05/21/09
Assets: $15 billion
Assets were sold to a new BankUnited, with former North Fork chief John Kanas at the helm, which went public in January.
Charter Communications
Filing date: 03/27/09
Assets: $13.9 billion
Cut its debt burden by 40%, emerged from bankruptcy in 2009 and re-listed on the Nasdaq. Was largely controlled by Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen until converting the billionaire’s supervoting shares into common stock in early 2011.

Tribune Company
Filing date: 12/08/08
Assets: $13.1 billion
Taken private by billionaire Sam Zell in 2007, newspaper publisher teetered into bankruptcy less than a year later and wound up selling off assets like the Chicago Cubs. Two years later battling creditors are still tied up in court.
 
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/banks-got-114b-from-governments-during-recession-1.1145997

It says support for Canadian banks from various agencies reached $114 billion at its peak. That works out to $3,400 for every man, woman and child in Canada, and also to seven per cent of Canada's gross domestic product in 2009.

The figure is also 10 times the amount Canadian taxpayers spent on the auto industry in 2009.

"At some point during the crisis, three of Canada's banks — CIBC, BMO, and Scotiabank — were completely under water, with government support exceeding the market value of the company," Macdonald said.

"Without government supports to fall back on, Canadian banks would have been in serious trouble."
 
Today's "fun question" is this:

The number one measure global banks have in their arsenal to induce growth is to reduce the interest rate. Now that rates are hovering around zero (with some negative), and now that there are signs around the world that we're settling toward another recession, what can the world's Federal Reserve Banks and their equivalents do next?

https://www.stlouisfed.org/publicat...interest-rates-and-investors-flight-to-safety
http://seekingalpha.com/article/3081666-negative-rates-a-new-macroeconomic-phenomenon
 
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/business/banking/article18700647.html

WASHINGTON
For more than a decade after her husband died, Laura Coleman Biggs paid her mortgage to a Bank of America subsidiary. She was never told, even as she was weeks from losing her home, that her husband had actually protected her against foreclosure.

George “Kenny” Mitchell had taken out a special lender-pushed insurance policy to pay off most of his loan if he died.

But when he passed away on April 26, 2003, the subsidiary of Charlotte-based Bank of America did not arrange a payoff of the $100,000 policy and continued to charge his widow an insurance premium every month along with her mortgage payment.

Now Bank of America, Select Portfolio Servicing – a company that collects mortgage payments – and a Florida insurer all face a federal lawsuit in California seeking compensatory and punitive damages, alleging negligence and fraud for their treatment of Biggs.
Her lawyers hope it will pull others out of the shadows nationwide who’ve faced similar problems with the nation’s big banks, already forced to pay regulators billions over the housing bust. The plight of the former nurse speaks to how much dysfunction remains in the housing finance system, which nearly toppled the U.S. economy seven years ago.

Anyone else want to tell me how everything's fine in the 'traditional' banking world?
 
In general it doesn't do any going to buy life insurance if you don't make sure the beneficiaries know about it. That said, in this case the processor should have flagged it. So they write a check for the damages to settle this suit, update the software and procedures, and life goes on.

There's nothing about cryptocurrency that would have made this situation any different.
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
In general it doesn't do any going to buy life insurance if you don't make sure the beneficiaries know about it. That said, in this case the processor should have flagged it. So they write a check for the damages to settle this suit, update the software and procedures, and life goes on.

There's nothing about cryptocurrency that would have made this situation any different.
This isn't about cryptocurrency.** This is about the real-world environment and highlighting why people around the world are using alternates to the 'traditional' systems. I'm trying to shine the light on some of the reasons why people decided to follow Buckminster Fuller's advice:

“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.”

In general I agree with you about notifying the family about insurance. There are a lot of reasons why one might not tell the beneficiary though that includes pride and a sense of duty - especially if they believed they had a system in place to "take care of" their loved one so they didn't have to worry.

I've been keeping my eyes on this since early in the global financial crisis and the birth of Arab Spring through the rise of the Occupy movement. This is only one example - I'm still getting two messages each week that highlight efforts to keep people in their homes after bailed-out banks continue to try to clean their balance sheets on the backs of people that can least afford to hire an attorney to fight back. It was and still is a real life-altering mess for way too many people. :(

edit... Not much different from 2012:

June 28, 2012

Arizona Mother and Homeowner Lilly Washington returned home from visiting her injured son in a US Military Hospital in Germany, to find that despite written confirmation from Bank of America that they would suspend their foreclosure proceedings until she returned, the bank illegally sold her home to Fannie Mae in a trustee's sale. Fannie Mae then changed the locks, and sent all of her belongings, including her son’s Purple Heart medal from his service in Iraq, to the city dump.
http://occupyourhomes.org/stories/

edit 2...
** There actually might be something about cryptocurrency that would have made this situation different. First, crypto doesn't need banks - it was specifically built to be completely independent of any central authority or manipulation, so there are no banks to process transactions, no foreclosure rules to break, and no right to come in and take another's property. This also means the subset of the alt-currency movement that uses crypto is essentially a 'cash' basis - save and buy, no loans - like the old-school days. The same applies to the gift and volunteer economy (one example is WWOOF - worldwide opportunities on organic farms - where people travel to volunteer on farms in exchange for experience and room/board/food) as well as the local currencies - no loans there, either - but in many cases, no need for them as the ethic makes sure people are taken care of in ways the traditional economy doesn't value.
 
The Bretton Woods system of monetary management established the rules for commercial and financial relations among the world's major industrial states in the mid-20th century. The Bretton Woods system was the first example of a fully negotiated monetary order intended to govern monetary relations among independent nation-states. The chief features of the Bretton Woods system were an obligation for each country to adopt a monetary policy that maintained the exchange rate by tying its currency to gold and the ability of the IMF to bridge temporary imbalances of payments. Also, there was a need to address the lack of cooperation among other countries and to prevent competitive devaluation of the currencies as well.

Preparing to rebuild the international economic system while World War II was still raging, 730 delegates from all 44 Allied nations gathered at the Mount Washington Hotel in Bretton Woods, New Hampshire, United States, for the United Nations Monetary and Financial Conference, also known as the Bretton Woods Conference. The delegates deliberated during 1–22 July 1944, and signed the Bretton Woods agreement on its final day. Setting up a system of rules, institutions, and procedures to regulate the international monetary system, these accords established the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and the International Bank for Reconstruction and Development (IBRD), which today is part of the World Bank Group. The United States, which controlled two thirds of the world's gold, insisted that the Bretton Woods system rest on both gold and the US dollar. Soviet representatives attended the conference but later declined to ratify the final agreements, charging that the institutions they had created were "branches of Wall Street."[1] These organizations became operational in 1945 after a sufficient number of countries had ratified the agreement.

On 15 August 1971, the United States unilaterally terminated convertibility of the US dollar to gold, effectively bringing the Bretton Woods system to an end and rendering the dollar a fiat currency.[2] This action, referred to as the Nixon shock, created the situation in which the United States dollar became a reserve currency used by many states. At the same time, many fixed currencies (such as the pound sterling, for example), also became free-floating.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bretton_Woods_system
 
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnp5ETnKylU[/youtube]

This is a amazingly clear-eyed view of not only the state of the world's economy and monetary policy, but an outsider's view of the state of the US, her place in the world, and the way she's fallen short with policy, infrastructure, and world leadership.
 
Today's example. The US continues to feed money from the Fed into the banking industry even after bailing many of them out with taxpayer money and declaring them to be 'critical' to the US economy. But apparently the citizens that pay the taxes are not 'too big to fail.'

https://www.change.org/p/wells-farg...-leaves-me-and-my-three-children-home-less-wh

My name is Florica Moldovan, and in 1997 my husband and I purchased our first home together in Sacramento. But our lives took an unexpected turn when Nick was diagnosed with stage 3 colon cancer and lost his ability to work. After fighting the disease for nearly 5 years, he now has mere days to live. But on top of all this pain, Wells Fargo has evicted us from the our home, despite being in talks to modify our mortgage. This is not only heartless, it’s illegal.

Please sign my petition asking Wells Fargo to compensate our family for their illegal foreclosure of our home.

After Nick began chemotherapy he wasn't able to provide the second income we desperately needed to keep afloat. We asked Wells Fargo for a hardship loan modification but were denied. And after a failed attempt at chapter 13, we once again entered into lengthy modification talks with the bank. It was our only option. If the bank was not willing to work with us, not only would we lose our dream home, but we would be left with nothing.

Little did we know, Wells Fargo had sold our home right from under us.

Not long ago we were served a 3-day eviction notice. I haven’t had the heart to tell him that we've lost our home and are now relying on the generosity of family for shelter. My husband turned our house into the home of our dreams. It was a legacy he had hoped to pass on to our children. Now all we have left are painful memories.

This is not the story of financial irresponsibility. It is the story of a family that has suffered years of tragedy and that is struggling to get back on their feet. We have played by the rules, tried at every chance to make things right with the bank and have been frustrated at every turn. This could happen to anyone and I need you to help save my family from a life on the streets. Please join me and tell Wells Fargo to reverse our foreclosure and give my family a second chance.
 
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