Am I a candidate for a Leaf?

[Deleted member 9106]

I currently drive a Nissan Cube and have been interested in the Leaf since it's release.

Here are my details:
-I live in Ontario Canada so keep our winters in mind
-This will be my only vehicle
-My commute is 60 km round trip mostly highways and can be windy
-I have no option to charge at work and no charging stations on my route

In particular, do you think I could get away with only using trickle charging? I would want to lease the Leaf to really have the option of trying it out and don't want to spend the money on installing the L2 charger if I don't stick with it.

Thanks!

 

[planet4ever]

I should really let someone with cold weather experience answer, but 60 km per day doesn't sound like a problem, at least if you hold your speed down during the winter - perhaps not more than 90 kph. You will want to get a version with the heat pump, so the SV or SL, not the S. You are on the edge with trickle charging, which may take 10-12 hours per night. I wouldn't be surprised if you found yourself wishing for something faster if you need to go on a shopping trip in the evening after a commute during the day. I expect you can live fairly easily on 120v charging this year, though by the time winter weather sets in you might want something better. That gives you plenty of time to consider your options. (And there are some inexpensive options.)

Ray

 

[davewill]

The commute is no problem, even with winter temps and no charging at work. I predict the L1 will get a little old, and a bit problematic in the dead of winter. You may have difficulty getting enough hours a night to keep the battery up. Better plan on getting L2 before winter hits.

 

[bradbissell]

If you have L2 at home, a SV LEAF will be a perfect car for your commute. I use L1 at the moment and I charge at work and home for my 52+ mile commute. 60km would be on the edge of being able to fully charge during the spring/fall, winter would be a no go. Also, I would lease for 2years so your not stuck with a degraded battery during winter. That is what I am doing. So far my 2013 SV is exceeding my expectations.

 

[Reddy]

Agreed. Distances less than 50 mi (80 km) should be easy. Go for it, but get the SL or SV with the more efficient heat pump.

I've only experienced maybe -10C to -15C. If you are below that temp, then you'll need to look at others for help. You will consume more electricity driving (I get 2-2.5 mi/kWh in winter but with the inefficient 2011 heater blasting) and get less kWh's out of the battery when cold, maybe as low as 15 kWh instead of 20 kWh in the warmer climates. So my absolute worst case is a range of about 30-40 mi (50-67 km) in winter with the heat blasting. Without heat, you should double that range. I've never had a problem due to my shorter commute and rarely see those temps anyway.

Now, that said, only using L1 could be problematic when really cold. Even if you're parked in a garage overnight (and I certainly hope so otherwise you're missing one of the best benefits of an EV), the L1 will only output 1.2 kW of heat into the cabin during pre-heating. It works fine for me, but I don't think the car has ever been below -5C in the garage. In really cold temps, the car may not prewarm all the way to 25 C, but it's certainly warmer than ambient.

Here's the biggest problem: Charging overnight with L1 (let's say for 12 hrs) will probably only get you 12 kWh into the battery. So if you get 2 mi/kWh when it's really cold, that's only 25 mi (40 km) of travel. Throw in a headwind both directions (yes it can happen), and you'll wonder "what was I thinking." Don't get me wrong, you'll probably do better, but you'll need to prepare for the worst and hope for the best. Personally, I would do it (and have done some crazy things: See signature line), but you have to decide whether you are willing and able to have back up plans on those extra cold days/weeks. If you go with L2 (16 amp or 30 amp at 240 V), then it's not a problem at all. Charge to 100% on those extra cold days and zoom on out.

The problem with L1 is that if you get behind on charge, it takes all day to catch up. For example, say on Monday you end up driving an extra 10-20 km for dinner or errands or don't get home until 10 pm. Then you only have 8 hr of charge time until you leave for work. Now you've only added 8 kWh into the battery, which might be only 15-20 mi of distance in the real cold. Are you willing to go without heat that day so that you can make it to work? It's not a problem if you have another car, a faster L2 EVSE, charging at work, or an emergency charger along the route (check http://www.plugshare.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; to make sure). In your situation, it sounds like some of the back ups are missing. Not a good idea. Get the L2 and your feel better.

Edit: You'll have all summer to decide on whether you like the car enough to get L2.

 

[UkrainianKozak]

The commute is totally fine, but I would get a level2, you don't need to invest too much money, $200-#300 will buy you Open EVSE or Nissan's EVSE upgrade (http://evseupgrade.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false and will give you piece of mind so you don't be in position when you'll come home late and won't have an option to charge fully overnight.

 

[Deleted member 9106]

Thanks everyone for the fast replies. Very excited to hear that the Leaf may fit my needs and that I wouldn't have to worry about L2 charging until the winter. I honestly think that I will have no problem getting 12-14 hours charge each night. I am quite the homebody during the week So perhaps I would be able to make it through the winter going easy on the heat and speed? I'm anticipating it will be a couple thousand dollars to have a 240 V outlet put into the garage so another reason I'd like to get by without it. Should also mention I have access to my husband's vehicle for evening or weekend errands if necessary.

 

[springbank]

and I certainly hope so otherwise you're missing one of the best benefits of an EV

Don't mean to take this conversation sideways, but since I don't have a garage I was wondering what I'm missing

 

[GeekEV]

At first I was going to say "no", but then I realized it was round trip not each way. Round trip should be no problem, as others have said. The heater (in an '11 or '12) was a huge drain, but I'm not sure about the '13 (it's supposed to be better). But even at that, 60km round trip should be a cake walk provided you don't too to fast on the freeway - that's another big range killer.

 

[Reddy]

and I certainly hope so otherwise you're missing one of the best benefits of an EV

Don't mean to take this conversation sideways, but since I don't have a garage I was wondering what I'm missing

For my short (8 mi RT) commute, pre-warming inside the garage is really nice. When it gets downright cold and snowy, it's nice to step into the garage without worrying about scaping the windshield and clearing off the car. I even use carwings to turn on the car before I leave the office. My old gasser would never even warm up on the drive. Yes, there are so many nice benefits to the car it's hard to pick a favorite.

 

[Reddy]

Thanks everyone for the fast replies. Very excited to hear that the Leaf may fit my needs and that I wouldn't have to worry about L2 charging until the winter. I honestly think that I will have no problem getting 12-14 hours charge each night. I am quite the homebody during the week So perhaps I would be able to make it through the winter going easy on the heat and speed? I'm anticipating it will be a couple thousand dollars to have a 240 V outlet put into the garage so another reason I'd like to get by without it. Should also mention I have access to my husband's vehicle for evening or weekend errands if necessary.

Many on the forum have upgraded the cord/brick that comes with the car using http://www.evseupgrade.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Do a search on MNL forum and you will see plenty of satisfied customers. Then all you need is a 240 receptacle in the garage.

 

[cgaydos]

Just to add to the consenus, your commute will be no problem. Translating to metric, we've gotten 80km range on snow days at -15C, despite having to climb 500m elevation on back half of the round trip and of course having the heater on the whole trip. A 2013 LEAF will have better range and the heater won't use as much power.

 

[planet4ever]

I'm anticipating it will be a couple thousand dollars to have a 240 V outlet put into the garage so another reason I'd like to get by without it. Should also mention I have access to my husband's vehicle for evening or weekend errands if necessary.

Many on the forum have upgraded the cord/brick that comes with the car using http://www.evseupgrade.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Do a search on MNL forum and you will see plenty of satisfied customers. Then all you need is a 240 receptacle in the garage.

Access to another vehicle for errands may well allow you to continue to live on 120v charging. But you can probably avoid most of that $2,000 cost for 240v to the garage if you currently have two or more circuits going there. You might be able to shuffle your present usage to free up one circuit, which can in most cases be converted to 240v 20A very cheaply. Or you can use "Quick 220" to plug into two 120v outlets on different circuits to provide 240v.

If you get a LEAF with the new 6kW charger neither of these will allow the on-board charger to run at full speed, but it will still charge three or even four times as fast as it can on 120v.

Ray

 

[Deleted member 9106]

Access to another vehicle for errands may well allow you to continue to live on 120v charging. But you can probably avoid most of that $2,000 cost for 240v to the garage if you currently have two or more circuits going there. You might be able to shuffle your present usage to free up one circuit, which can in most cases be converted to 240v 20A very cheaply. Or you can use "Quick 220" to plug into two 120v outlets on different circuits to provide 240v.

Ray

Had a look at our electric panel in the basement and see just 1 switch for the garage. The garage has an automatic door opener attached to an outlet in the ceiling, a light and another outlet on the wall. Doesn't look like there are 2 circuits. If I do use 120V I imagine I need to make sure I don't use the light or door opener while the car is charging?

 

[cgaydos]

Access to another vehicle for errands may well allow you to continue to live on 120v charging. But you can probably avoid most of that $2,000 cost for 240v to the garage if you currently have two or more circuits going there. You might be able to shuffle your present usage to free up one circuit, which can in most cases be converted to 240v 20A very cheaply. Or you can use "Quick 220" to plug into two 120v outlets on different circuits to provide 240v.

Ray

Had a look at our electric panel in the basement and see just 1 switch for the garage. The garage has an automatic door opener attached to an outlet in the ceiling, a light and another outlet on the wall. Doesn't look like there are 2 circuits. If I do use 120V I imagine I need to make sure I don't use the light or door opener while the car is charging?

You'll probably be fine with the light and the garage door. Before we got our Schneider EVSE we used trickle charging from our 15 amp garage circuit with lights and opener and the circuit didn't trip unless we also were running something else big (in our case a 1500w pond heater + trickle charge tripped the circuit).

 

[Deleted member 9106]

Cool. Thanks cgaydos. Sounds like I'd be all set off the bat to just plug her in.

Now my next question is would a 2012 suit my needs (and save me some $) or do I need the better heater of the 2013? I just contacted a Leaf dealer in my area to see when they expected to see the 2013s and was told June or July. They do have a 2012 in stock I can go and take a look at. If you were me would you wait?

How about the quick charge option - I can't see how I would ever be able to use it as there are no chargers in my area to use it. I don't imagine Nissan provides roadside assistance that can give you a L3 charge?

 

[abasile]

If I were you, given your climate, I would not be terribly concerned about battery degradation. Just be aware that your battery might be down to about 80% of its original capacity after five years. Personally, I am planning on keeping my LEAF for more than 10 years, as it'll still be useful to our family with less range.

Once you start driving the LEAF, you are likely to enjoy it so much that you'll want to take it on trips longer than your commute to work. If you're like me, you'll want as much flexibility as possible in using the car. If I were in the market for a new LEAF today, I would not skimp on anything related to the range of the car or charging. Thus, I would get the 6 kW charger, the quick charge port, and the heat pump. While there might not be any quick chargers in your area today, that could potentially change if you are near a major city.

 

[Reddy]

What city? Did you check http://www.plugshare.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for nearby charging? If you plan to drive out of town and charge on the road, then faster charging (even 6 kW if no DCQC's are nearby), is obviously better. I wouldn't skimp unless you are very price sensitive. Unless the 2012 is a lot cheaper, you'll probably be kicking yourself once you see how much energy the heater consumes. Many people have been disappointed with the 2011/12 heater. If you're cold weather hardy, then it's no big deal. I do long trips without much heat if I need the range, but mostly I'm in town with the heater blasting. As Abasile said, battery degradation in Canada shouldn't be a significant concern. More info on using L1 only: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=10776&p=247635#p247635

 

[smkettner]

Any chance you have an unused dryer outlet in the garage?

 

[kubel]

I live in Ontario Canada so keep our winters in mind

I'm just next door in Michigan. LEAF can do winter, just know that a freezing pack takes a long time to charge, and doesn't store as much energy as a warm pack. It will also take a lot of energy out of the pack to keep the cabin warm.

This will be my only vehicle

Shouldn't be a problem. You may need to borrow or rent a gas car once or twice per year.

My commute is 60 km round trip mostly highways and can be windy

So 37 miles of highway, that's doable. With my commute (mostly 40-60MPH), 45 miles on a single 100% charge is the limit in January (coldest month of the year) if I plan to use the heater.

I have no option to charge at work and no charging stations on my route

Shouldn't be a problem if you can get to a 100% charge at home.

In particular, do you think I could get away with only using trickle charging? I would want to lease the Leaf to really have the option of trying it out and don't want to spend the money on installing the L2 charger if I don't stick with it.

Trickle charging is very slow, and it's considerably slower in the winter. In the summer, it will work fine. But in January, you are going to run into problems being able to reach a 100% charge by the time you leave in the morning, and that's the time of year when you need that 100%. I don't think it will work. You'll need a L2 EVSE.