Buy a Leaf while waiting for an ID.4?

[LHN]

Hello--

I am new to the forum and this is my first post. I have read lots of info here which is all very helpful!

So, this is my situation. I reserved a VW ID.4 on Nov 14, 2021 and since then--nothing. Between a backlog of orders and cars burning up at sea, I am wondering when I will see my ID.4 and actually losing hope for 2022. Being impatient, I have put a deposit on a Nissan Leaf SL Plus. The dealer says it is scheduled to arrive between Mar 6 to Mar 26. That gives me time to get a charger installed at the house and be ready to go.

This is my thinking: I currently have a 2019 Buick Envision AWD with 11,600 miles. It is much more car than I need. At this point, I am not hauling things or people (children are grown, no grandchildren) and 99% of the time it's just me in the car. It seems to make sense to trade it in now, plus I have a feeling that gas prices are going to go through the roof in the next few weeks. So I can make the EV switch now and get on the bandwagon.

I am not cancelling my ID.4 reservation, however. When it materializes, then we can decide what to do. If my husband decides he wants to go electric, we can trade in his 2016 Tiguan. If I decide the Leaf is too small for me, then I can sell that and go with the ID.4. Or, if my husband wants to stick with his car and I like the Leaf, then we can pass on the ID.4. Another option: my daughter is currently driving a 2005 Toyota Camry with about 200K miles and it is showing its age. So, if I get the ID.4 and want to keep it, maybe I could pass the Leaf down to her.

I posted a similar message in the VW ID.4 and got lots of helpful comments and advice but they were all very VW-centric (not surprising). Now I am posting here to see what dedicated Leaf owners seem to think about my strategy. Thanks in advance for your comments!

 

[Triggerhappy007]

Go for it. The LEAF is a great entry level EV. You won't need a 'charger' since the SL comes with a 120V/240V one already. Just have a electrician wire up a 14-50 outlet with a 50A breaker in case you upgrade to a faster 'charger' later.

After owning 3 LEAFs, I'm going to splurge and get a Mach-E.

 

[LeftieBiker]

It's REALLY hard to predict where the used car market will go, with the invasion of top of the parts shortages for new cars, but it's more likely to stay hotter for longer. IF that's the case, then you may be able to break even on the Leaf if you get the ID-4 and sell it. No guarantees, but in these bizarre times...

 

[SageBrush]

After owning 3 LEAFs, I'm going to splurge and get a Mach-E.

The Good News (tm) is that rapid-gating in the Mach-E is no worse than in a LEAF. The not so good news is that you pay handsomely to be so hobbled.

https://youtu.be/7lTj_gwetyc


It will be worse in the summer

 

[SageBrush]

Now I am posting here to see what dedicated Leaf owners seem to think about my strategy.

I think posts seeking affirmation are a waste of everybody's time. It is also a waste of time to ask people how much a used LEAF will sell for a year from now. Lastly, I presume you can rationalize your own behavior all by yourself.

Figure out your priorities, then decide after you have the *available* information you need. I will say this: using a couple months of high gas prices as your cover/excuse to buy EV today is completely irrational but I'll guess wide-spread. I think it is what sales-critters mean when they say a car purchase is "emotional."

 

[knightmb]

After owning 3 LEAFs, I'm going to splurge and get a Mach-E.

The Good News (tm) is that rapid-gating in the Mach-E is no worse than in a LEAF. The not so good news is that you pay handsomely to be so hobbled.

It will be worse in the summer

After watching the video, I realized that even though it does charge at a higher rate and has a bigger battery than the Leaf, the time vs. SOC are slower. At 80% SOC, the Mach-E is charging at a slower rate than my Leaf, which surprised me how quickly the rate really dropped. While I'm complaining that my Leaf has dropped to 30kW @ 80%, the Mach-E has hit 13kW @ 80%. Granted, the Mach-E is still getting more range than the Leaf, but it does make me appreciate that even without a TMS, the Leaf battery can still charge and stay under 90F the whole time, very interesting video, thanks for sharing!

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Buick too big, LEAF maybe too small? I had thought about the ID4 simply because I knew well in advance that VW would use EA as a selling tool but found it to be more car than I would need 99% of the time. Although not an issue most of the time, there would also be occasional parking challenges which still exist for the LEAF but being smaller, the challenge is somewhat easier.

 

[goldbrick]

Do you qualify for the full $7500 tax credit? That makes a big difference in the price of a Leaf or a ID.4.

You can use Carvana or Vroom to see get an accurate reading of what you could sell the used Leaf for today, but as mentioned, no one knows what that price will be in the future.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Do you qualify for the full $7500 tax credit? That makes a big difference in the price of a Leaf or a ID.4.

You can use Carvana or Vroom to see get an accurate reading of what you could sell the used Leaf for today, but as mentioned, no one knows what that price will be in the future.

Sounds like the bigger question is qualifying for two credits. Right now, used EVs are not going for a good price with the exception of the very bottom rung. I know someone who did well recently but it was a 2014 with 9 bars.

 

[OldManCan]

Sounds like the bigger question is qualifying for two credits.

It is also not clear on what happens when you sell one of the cars after a short while. Do you still claim the tax credit next filing season even if you don't have the car anymore... Not sure on this but would be well worth checking out in case OP is counting on that credit to make up the numbers.

My humble opinion on this is as follows : ID.4 is looking nice but is a reasonably new car with many initial teething issues, bugs, slow software update cycle etc. No doubt VW will overcome these and make ID.4 and its succession in the line up nice cars to have but for now I'd steer away from these and any other first gen cars for that matter. LEAF is a well settled mature platform with relatively small number of known issues. Size wise it is a little small but sounds like OP's needs are not pointing to anything larger and if anything they still have a larger ICE vehicle in the family.

I'd say go for it and never look back!

 

[Triggerhappy007]

After owning 3 LEAFs, I'm going to splurge and get a Mach-E.

The Good News (tm) is that rapid-gating in the Mach-E is no worse than in a LEAF. The not so good news is that you pay handsomely to be so hobbled.

https://youtu.be/7lTj_gwetyc


It will be worse in the summer

That video is old, there was a software update that increased the speed after 80% dramatically. I don't need to travel with the car anyways, it's just for commuting. My true cost to upgrade to the Mach-E was about $10k, which is really good in this market.

[YouTube] https://youtu.be/kPRvNCy-6eA[/youtube]

 

[LHN]

Buick too big, LEAF maybe too small? I had thought about the ID4 simply because I knew well in advance that VW would use EA as a selling tool but found it to be more car than I would need 99% of the time.

This is something I think about. I went from a small Saab 9-3 convertible, which I loved, but had to get rid of because it was too hard to get in and out of after a knee injury. Maybe the pendulum swung a bit too far with the Buick and I am wondering if the Leaf is going to be "just right." When I test drove one the other day, the in/out was fine. The seat seemed a little low but the dealer said it wasn't "pumped up." The one I am looking at is a Plus, which would have the automatic seat and I hope the height would be easier to adjust.

 

[LHN]

My humble opinion on this is as follows : ID.4 is looking nice but is a reasonably new car with many initial teething issues, bugs, slow software update cycle etc. No doubt VW will overcome these and make ID.4 and its succession in the line up nice cars to have but for now I'd steer away from these and any other first gen cars for that matter. LEAF is a well settled mature platform with relatively small number of known issues. Size wise it is a little small but sounds like OP's needs are not pointing to anything larger and if anything they still have a larger ICE vehicle in the family.

I'd say go for it and never look back!

Thank you for this! Now I am looking at a used Leaf SL Plus--wouldn't qualify for the tax credit but also not as much money. I appreciate your comments on the ID.4 and something to think about.

 

[LeftieBiker]

The power seat that comes with the Tech Package is pretty basic. No memory, and minimal adjustments. I suggest that you try one on the lot.

 

[LHN]

The power seat that comes with the Tech Package is pretty basic. No memory, and minimal adjustments. I suggest that you try one on the lot.

Thank you for this suggestion!

 

[knightmb]

Sounds like the bigger question is qualifying for two credits.

It is also not clear on what happens when you sell one of the cars after a short while. Do you still claim the tax credit next filing season even if you don't have the car anymore... Not sure on this but would be well worth checking out in case OP is counting on that credit to make up the numbers.

Yes, the credit is for the purchase of the EV, not ownership. If you sell it in the same year, it's "used" and the next buyer can not claim the credit. I looked this up a long time ago, so as far as I know, it hasn't changed right? :?

 

[SageBrush]

Yes, the credit is for the purchase of the EV, not ownership. If you sell it in the same year, it's "used" and the next buyer can not claim the credit. I looked this up a long time ago, so as far as I know, it hasn't changed right? :?

Right, for the most part.
There is language in the law meant to discourage speculative buying but after paying sales tax and using the car ~ 6 months, I think the buyer is on safe ground tax credit wise.

 

[knightmb]

After owning 3 LEAFs, I'm going to splurge and get a Mach-E.

The Good News (tm) is that rapid-gating in the Mach-E is no worse than in a LEAF. The not so good news is that you pay handsomely to be so hobbled.


It will be worse in the summer

That video is old, there was a software update that increased the speed after 80% dramatically. I don't need to travel with the car anyways, it's just for commuting. My true cost to upgrade to the Mach-E was about $10k, which is really good in this market.

They are in the same year, just months apart, I don't know if I would call it old. :lol:

But yeah, just to backup what I claimed earlier, I did a test today at the local QC and I guess my memory hasn't failed me yet.

 

[knightmb]

Yes, the credit is for the purchase of the EV, not ownership. If you sell it in the same year, it's "used" and the next buyer can not claim the credit. I looked this up a long time ago, so as far as I know, it hasn't changed right? :?

Right, for the most part.
There is language in the law meant to discourage speculative buying but after paying sales tax and using the car ~ 6 months, I think the buyer is on safe ground tax credit wise.

Yeah, just looked at the Form 8936, since it doesn't say how far you have to drive it, I guess out of the dealership parking lot should be far enough. :lol:

To be eligible for the electric vehicle tax credit, a taxpayer must have purchased their four-wheeled electric plug-in vehicle during or after 2010, or their two-wheeled plug-in vehicle between 2015 and the end of 2021, as noted above, and begun driving it in the same year when the credit is claimed. The vehicle must be new at the time of purchase; there is no tax credit for used electric vehicles.

 

[SageBrush]

Yeah, just looked at the Form 8936, since it doesn't say how far you have to drive it, I guess out of the dealership parking lot should be far enough. :lol:

To be eligible for the electric vehicle tax credit, a taxpayer must have purchased their four-wheeled electric plug-in vehicle during or after 2010, or their two-wheeled plug-in vehicle between 2015 and the end of 2021, as noted above, and begun driving it in the same year when the credit is claimed. The vehicle must be new at the time of purchase; there is no tax credit for used electric vehicles.

AND

You acquired the vehicle for use or to lease to others,
and not for resale.

^^ This is why I say that speculation is discouraged. I don't know how the IRS would draw a line where speculation ends after sales/property tax is paid, but I make it a rule to never have to argue with the IRS