Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

[davekern]

I called this morning and got a case number. Here are more details about our "Leaf habits" in case anyone is interested.

Received May 4, 2011, at one year had 16,500 miles and now about 20,500. Lost the first bar yesterday 8/27.
We charge to 100% every night starting at midnight when it is cool out and parked in garage. I estimate the number of time we have charged during the day as under 10.
We almost always drive in ECO mode.
Never charged at any voltage except 240.
Car is driven 45 - 55 miles in mix of city and Hwy (about 50/50) each day to work depending on which client. Then, around town doing kid drop off and pick ups. We typically end day with car at 10 miles or under left.

When we got the car we would get about 75 - 80 miles. After the last software "upgrade" we dropped to 65-70. (both with no A/C or heater) I took it in to ask and they said all good. Had battery tested twice and was told everything was "great". I now get 60-65 with no A/C and 55'is with A/C on a charge with 50/50 mix of highway / city. We are approaching the non-useful range...

I was told today that a big drop in battery life in the beginning is to be expected and then it will level out for a long time but that further study is being done. They said, "As we told you, you need to expect a drop in range over time". Looks like they are setting us up for a "too bad for you" moment.

Where do you want me to post the case number, case number, date of report, and also the date of manufacture for those interested?

 

[vrwl]

I called this morning and got a case number. Here are more details about our "Leaf habits" in case anyone is interested.

Received May 4, 2011, at one year had 16,500 miles and now about 20,500. Lost the first bar yesterday 8/27.
We charge to 100% every night starting at midnight when it is cool out and parked in garage. I estimate the number of time we have charged during the day as under 10.
We almost always drive in ECO mode.
Never charged at any voltage except 240.
Car is driven 45 - 55 miles in mix of city and Hwy (about 50/50) each day to work depending on which client. Then, around town doing kid drop off and pick ups. We typically end day with car at 10 miles or under left.

When we got the car we would get about 75 - 80 miles. After the last software "upgrade" we dropped to 65-70. (both with no A/C or heater) I took it in to ask and they said all good. Had battery tested twice and was told everything was "great". I now get 60-65 with no A/C and 55'is with A/C on a charge with 50/50 mix of highway / city. We are approaching the non-useful range...

I was told today that a big drop in battery life in the beginning is to be expected and then it will level out for a long time but that further study is being done. They said, "As we told you, you need to expect a drop in range over time". Looks like they are setting us up for a "too bad for you" moment.

Where do you want me to post the case number, case number, date of report, and also the date of manufacture for those interested?

You can post the case number and related info here in this thread and then we can update the Wiki for you if you don't know how to do that yourself. I went ahead and updated the Wiki with your comments about the use of your car.

 

[Stoaty]

Tom, I suspect that you are right, and battery capacity loss is something that will affect most owners, even in temperate climates. Please have a look at the an old thread, where we discussed how temperature distribution in different locales and some basic chemistry (Arrhenius law) can be used to roughly predict the relative speed of aging for passively cooled batteries. The underlying numbers are very rough, and the results are to be taken with a grain of salt. However, if the basic premise holds, this seems to indicate that given your usage pattern, you would have lost the first capacity bar in about 11 months if you lived in Phoenix.

I think it would be a good idea to add this table to the Wiki under the battery capacity loss section. That would give prospective customers a rough idea of what to expect.

 

[bigfoot]

My service adviser instructed me to call Nissan and get on the list.
He also said he is expecting an update from Nissan from the data they got from the LEAF`s tested in Casa Grande.

Added to Wiki. To complete your entry, we need:

Location - City, State
Case number from Nissan
Date reported to Nissan
Month/year of manufacture

Thanks. Sorry to hear about your bar loss. Six months is very fast.

Location: San Tan Valley, AZ
Case Number: 924-8321
Date Reported: 08/27/2012
Manufactured: 06/2011

 

[vrwl]

My service adviser instructed me to call Nissan and get on the list.
He also said he is expecting an update from Nissan from the data they got from the LEAF`s tested in Casa Grande.

Added to Wiki. To complete your entry, we need:

Location - City, State
Case number from Nissan
Date reported to Nissan
Month/year of manufacture

Thanks. Sorry to hear about your bar loss. Six months is very fast.

Location: San Tan Valley, AZ
Case Number: 924-8321
Date Reported: 08/27/2012
Manufactured: 06/2011

Wiki updated, thanks for the additional info.

 

[vrwl]

My service adviser instructed me to call Nissan and get on the list.
He also said he is expecting an update from Nissan from the data they got from the LEAF`s tested in Casa Grande.

Added to Wiki. To complete your entry, we need:

Location - City, State
Case number from Nissan
Date reported to Nissan
Month/year of manufacture

Thanks. Sorry to hear about your bar loss. Six months is very fast.

Location: San Tan Valley, AZ
Case Number: 924-8321
Date Reported: 08/27/2012
Manufactured: 06/2011

Bigfoot, one more question... did you purchase your vehicle as a demo or pre-owned? I'm assuming it's a 2011 model due to the manufacture date, so just wondering about the prior history of this car. Or was it brand new and it was just sitting on the dealer's lot for 9 months before you purchased it?

 

[bigfoot]

It was new with only 7 miles on it, sat for a long time didn't it.

Location: San Tan Valley, AZ
Case Number: 924-8321
Date Reported: 08/27/2012
Manufactured: 06/2011

Bigfoot, one more question... did you purchase your vehicle as a demo or pre-owned? I'm assuming it's a 2011 model due to the manufacture date, so just wondering about the prior history of this car. Or was it brand new and it was just sitting on the dealer's lot for 9 months before you purchased it?

 

[vrwl]

It was new with only 7 miles on it, sat for a long time didn't it.

Location: San Tan Valley, AZ
Case Number: 924-8321
Date Reported: 08/27/2012
Manufactured: 06/2011

Bigfoot, one more question... did you purchase your vehicle as a demo or pre-owned? I'm assuming it's a 2011 model due to the manufacture date, so just wondering about the prior history of this car. Or was it brand new and it was just sitting on the dealer's lot for 9 months before you purchased it?

The fact that it sat on the lot in the heat (probably fully charged all the time) could possibly explain why you experienced a loss 6 months after your purchased it. I may be faced with a similar situation in the near future too.

 

[luchaks]

Lost a bar this month. I noticed on 8/15/2012 around 17,000 miles. I always charge at 220 mostly while garaged and charge to 100%. We put between 40-50 miles per day on the car.

Our annual battery check in June indicated all was well.

Purchased new in June 2011.

Location: Houston, TX
Case Number: 924-8572
Date Reported: 08/27/2012
Manufactured: 06/2011
VIN# 02561

 

[gbshaun]

...When we got the car we would get about 75 - 80 miles. After the last software "upgrade" we dropped to 65-70.

Dave, are you saying there was a STEP change when the software was updated? Or that by the time you had it updated you were down to 65-70? When was that?
I've been wondering if my software update about 3 months ago didn't coincide with a noticeable apparent loss in kwH/bar,... presumably merely changing the scale of the bars and putting more at the lower end.
Shaun

 

[bigfoot]

As soon as I saw the date, I thought the same thing. I do know they had to charge it before I could take it home thou.

It was new with only 7 miles on it, sat for a long time didn't it.

Bigfoot, one more question... did you purchase your vehicle as a demo or pre-owned? I'm assuming it's a 2011 model due to the manufacture date, so just wondering about the prior history of this car. Or was it brand new and it was just sitting on the dealer's lot for 9 months before you purchased it?

The fact that it sat on the lot in the heat (probably fully charged all the time) could possibly explain why you experienced a loss 6 months after your purchased it. I may be faced with a similar situation in the near future too.

 

[RegGuheert]

As soon as I saw the date, I thought the same thing. I do know they had to charge it before I could take it home thou.

That's actually a good sign.

 

[vrwl]

Lost a bar this month. I noticed on 8/15/2012 around 17,000 miles. I always charge at 220 mostly while garaged and charge to 100%. We put between 40-50 miles per day on the car.

Our annual battery check in June indicated all was well.

Purchased new in June 2011.

Location: Houston, TX
Case Number: 924-8572
Date Reported: 08/27/2012
Manufactured: 06/2011
VIN# 02561

Added to the Wiki, sorry to hear about your bar loss.

 

[spooka]

I have lost 2 bars, living in Phoenix:

Car has always been stored in garage. Sits in a parking lot for 8 hours during the day 3 days a week on average.

Bar 1 On or around Aug 1, 2012. Took possession of the car July 15th, 2011. (1 yr) 12,500 miles. 1 QC, all others L2 charging to 100%. VIN 004917.
Bar 2 August 26, 2012 (today!). (1yr, 1mo) 13,365 miles. 1 more QC. Only 1 month and 865 miles between bar loss

Not reported to Nissan. Will report this week.

Manufacturer date 05/11

Added to Wiki. Sorry to hear about your loss. I believe you may have set a record, with only 26 days elapsed between first and second bar loss. Let us know case number and date reported to Nissan.

Follow up: not sure how to add to the wiki
Notified Nissan today. My lucky case number is 9249329
Service rep stated Nissan is looking into the issue...

 

[vrwl]

I have lost 2 bars, living in Phoenix:

Car has always been stored in garage. Sits in a parking lot for 8 hours during the day 3 days a week on average.

Bar 1 On or around Aug 1, 2012. Took possession of the car July 15th, 2011. (1 yr) 12,500 miles. 1 QC, all others L2 charging to 100%. VIN 004917.
Bar 2 August 26, 2012 (today!). (1yr, 1mo) 13,365 miles. 1 more QC. Only 1 month and 865 miles between bar loss

Not reported to Nissan. Will report this week.

Manufacturer date 05/11

Added to Wiki. Sorry to hear about your loss. I believe you may have set a record, with only 26 days elapsed between first and second bar loss. Let us know case number and date reported to Nissan.

Follow up: not sure how to add to the wiki
Notified Nissan today. My lucky case number is 9249329
Service rep stated Nissan is looking into the issue...

Thanks for the additional info, I added it to your wiki record.

 

[SilverLeaf]

Sadly, I am joining the club too.

Yesterday, I lost a bar.

Now I am a bit confused.

I charged to 100%, and when done, it shows charged to 12 bars, even though there are only 11 bars.

I have 8,100 miles in 16.5 months. I charge to 100% always, always with home EVSE at 240 volts.

What's the significance of a lost bar if it still charges to 12 bars, even though there are only 11?

 

[mksE55]

Sadly, I am joining the club too.

Yesterday, I lost a bar.

Now I am a bit confused.

I charged to 100%, and when done, it shows charged to 12 bars, even though there are only 11 bars.

I have 8,100 miles in 16.5 months. I charge to 100% always, always with home EVSE at 240 volts.

What's the significance of a lost bar if it still charges to 12 bars, even though there are only 11?

the big Blue bars are your charge level from 0-100% charged. the small white bars to the Right of the big blue bars is the Battery capacity , which now suggest your battery only has 85% of the energy it could hold before when charged to full 12 blue bars. does this help. its the only way to show that even tho you have a fully charged battery it could be 1/2 gone and you would not know it.

 

[Stoaty]

Sadly, I am joining the club too.

Yesterday, I lost a bar.

Sorry to hear about your bar loss. To complete your Wiki entry, we still need:

--last 5 digits of VIN
--date of manufacture
--case number when reported to Nissan
--date of report to Nissan

The fuel bars will always show 12 when fully charged, even after you lost half a dozen capacity bars.

 

[SilverLeaf]

Sadly, I am joining the club too.

Yesterday, I lost a bar.

Sorry to hear about your bar loss. To complete your Wiki entry, we still need:

--last 5 digits of VIN
--date of manufacture
--case number when reported to Nissan
--date of report to Nissan

The fuel bars will always show 12 when fully charged, even after you lost half a dozen capacity bars.

The last 5 digits are 00561

I will provide the rest of the info after I return from a short trip.

 

[SilverLeaf]

Sadly, I am joining the club too.

Yesterday, I lost a bar.

Sorry to hear about your bar loss. To complete your Wiki entry, we still need:

--last 5 digits of VIN
--date of manufacture
--case number when reported to Nissan
--date of report to Nissan

The fuel bars will always show 12 when fully charged, even after you lost half a dozen capacity bars.

The last 5 digits are 00561
Case Number is 924 9670
Reported August 27, 2012

I don't have date of manufacture handy, will prove when I get it.


I will provide the rest of the info after I return from a short trip.