Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

[vrwl]

The last 5 digits are 00561
Case Number is 924 9670
Reported August 27, 2012

I don't have date of manufacture handy, will prove when I get it.


I will provide the rest of the info after I return from a short trip.

Updated the wiki.

SilverLeaf, just in case you didn't know where to find it, the manufacture date is on a metal plate inside the driver's door on the frame of the car.

 

[planet4ever]

Yesterday, I lost a bar. Now I am a bit confused. I charged to 100%, and when done, it shows charged to 12 bars, even though there are only 11 bars.

What's the significance of a lost bar if it still charges to 12 bars, even though there are only 11?

Oversimplifying a bit, think of your battery as like a fuel tank, but one made out of flexible material -- say maybe goatskin. The skinny bars on the right tell you how big your tank is. Nissan's service manual says that when you lose the first bar, the battery capacity has shrunk by 15%. The fat bars tell you how full your battery is. If the battery shrinks it obviously can't hold as much, but it can still be full.

Ray

 

[SilverLeaf]

Checked my wiki entry. You have my forum name incorrect. Thanks for your effort with the wiki. Much appreciated.

 

[91040]

If with your driving style you were originally getting 6 miles per bar, as you lose capacity you will get fewer miles per bar. Think of it as deflation or the bars going on a diet and losing weight.

This is why having a meter that displays a fixed number for the amount of energy in the battery is extremely helpful. The fluidity of these bars mean you have to continually recalibrate your thinking as your capacity drops.

Yesterday, I lost a bar. Now I am a bit confused. I charged to 100%, and when done, it shows charged to 12 bars, even though there are only 11 bars.

What's the significance of a lost bar if it still charges to 12 bars, even though there are only 11?

Oversimplifying a bit, think of your battery as like a fuel tank, but one made out of flexible material -- say maybe goatskin. The skinny bars on the right tell you how big your tank is. Nissan's service manual says that when you lose the first bar, the battery capacity has shrunk by 15%. The fat bars tell you how full your battery is. If the battery shrinks it obviously can't hold as much, but it can still be full.

Ray

 

[SilverLeaf]

Thanks. I got it now.

 

[vrwl]

Checked my wiki entry. You have my forum name incorrect. Thanks for your effort with the wiki. Much appreciated.

Sorry about that, I've corrected the entry.

 

[planet4ever]

When we got the car we would get about 75 - 80 miles. After the last software "upgrade" we dropped to 65-70.

You need to explain what you mean by how many miles you can "get". Is that down to 2 bars left? Or Low Battery warning? Or when the last bar disappears? Or Very Low Battery warning? Or turtle? Or ...?

I do see one hint in another statement you made:

We typically end day with car at 10 miles or under left.

You are obviously talking about that big number we call the Guess-O-Meter (abbreviated GOM) because of how unreliable it is. Perhaps you are saying that you are afraid to let the GOM go below 10, because you don't want to run out of "gas", so you are now getting only 65-70 miles before it drops to 10. Did you know that your battery is still about 20-25% full when the GOM drops to 10? If GOM=10 is your criterion, then the real range of your car is still about 75-90 miles, which is not bad.

You just have to remember that the GOM, which is often wildly optimistic when the battery is nearly full, becomes very conservative when you get closer to empty. I drove 19 miles once after the GOM dropped to 8, and no, I didn't see the turtle. I did get off the freeway for the last half of that drive, and was driving a country road at about 40-45 mph.

Ray

 

[shrink]

I started a thread in the news section, but looks like the 2013 battery will be a little different:

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1078770_2013-nissan-leaf-electric-car-to-use-new-cheaper-battery-cells-report" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[tbleakne]

I'm beginning to think that it is as much a function of time and mileage as it is temperature... My car, which lost it's first capacity tick about a month ago, has never seen 7 temperature bars and has spend most of it's weekday life at work parked in Santa Monica where it is typically in the 70s... And it has been charged to only 80 percent about 95 percent of the time with only two QCs. The product of these three components (time, mileage and temperature) is what is really killing the Phoenix and Texas cars, but it shows me that most all will ultimately have capacity loss beyond what was originally projected and expected by both us and Nissan.

Is is possible that your car sits in the sun and gets warm despite the cooler air ? The 6th temperature bar covers a large range.

I agree the 3 factors you mention are primary, and many folks have proven that charging to only 80% does not protect them. However, I now believe it is still possible that charging to levels below 80% can modestly help slow the decline. Despite exceptionally warm weather the last few weeks (high 90s), it seems I might have managed to slow my battery's decline rate somewhat. I realize for many folks charging this low is not an option on weekdays, but perhaps some could try this on weekends.

Please understand I don't consider these higher rates of decline we are seeing as acceptable. I am just trying to mitigate my loss until a better car or battery that I can afford comes along.

 

[jhm614]

I reported my losses to Nissan. Would you please update my wiki entry?
Date of Manufacture: 2/11
Case: 925-0945
Date of Report: 8-27-12

Thanks,

J.

 

[JeremyW]

However, I now believe it is still possible that charging to levels below 80% can modestly help slow the decline.

I agree. I've been maintaining 3-5 bars most of the time (especially during the heat wave) since I live in a "bubble town" and rarely need more then 20 miles of range during the work week. I'll let you guys know if it worked... next year. :roll:

Jeremy

 

[Stoaty]

However, I now believe it is still possible that charging to levels below 80% can modestly help slow the decline.

I agree. I've been maintaining 3-5 bars most of the time (especially during the heat wave) since I live in a "bubble town" and rarely need more then 20 miles of range during the work week. I'll let you guys know if it worked... next year. :roll:

Jeremy

Agree 100%. I keep my Leaf at around 35% Gids as much of the time as possible, charge to about 72-75% Gids right before I leave for work. Doesn't interfere with my schedule so no downsides for me, might help.

 

[JeremyW]

However, I now believe it is still possible that charging to levels below 80% can modestly help slow the decline.

I agree. I've been maintaining 3-5 bars most of the time (especially during the heat wave) since I live in a "bubble town" and rarely need more then 20 miles of range during the work week. I'll let you guys know if it worked... next year. :roll:

Jeremy

Agree 100%. I keep my Leaf at around 35% Gids as much of the time as possible, charge to about 72-75% Gids right before I leave for work. Doesn't interfere with my schedule so no downsides for me, might help.

My rule of thumb has been to follow what the Volt TMS does. If the Chevy engineers thought it was worth it to use battery power to run the TMS while stationary, it was probably for good reason.
From the gm-volt forum:

If the car is off and not plugged in, it uses onboard power from the battery itself to run the TMS. Once the battery pack drops below 75% SOC, the TMS will no longer run and goes to sleep and won’t wake up again, no matter what happens with the battery temps, however hot they may get.

Although you'd think we'd see *some* correlation between 80% charges and longer life. Perhaps it has to be further down before reaping the benefits in hot climates. It would also suck if those with "big gids" (greater then 80Wh/gid) to be really charging to above 80% SOC by accident.

Jeremy

 

[opossum]

Azdre's most costly birthday present came a day late. Our Leaf is now a member of the 3-bar club. 21,834. We'll get the details in the wiki when we have time. We're busy using what little range we have...

 

[Stoaty]

My rule of thumb has been to follow what the Volt TMS does. If the Chevy engineers thought it was worth it to use battery power to run the TMS while stationary, it was probably for good reason.
From the gm-volt forum:

If the car is off and not plugged in, it uses onboard power from the battery itself to run the TMS. Once the battery pack drops below 75% SOC, the TMS will no longer run and goes to sleep and won’t wake up again, no matter what happens with the battery temps, however hot they may get.

Yeah, but if the car IS plugged in (which could be many hours at home), the TMS keeps the battery cool and comfortable.

 

[Stoaty]

I reported my losses to Nissan. Would you please update my wiki entry?
Date of Manufacture: 2/11
Case: 925-0945
Date of Report: 8-27-12

Wiki updated, thanks.

 

[Stoaty]

Azdre's most costly birthday present came a day late. Our Leaf is now a member of the 3-bar club. 21,834. We'll get the details in the wiki when we have time. We're busy using what little range we have...

What a birthday present! :twisted: Added to Wiki, will update if more info posted.

 

[vrwl]

Azdre's most costly birthday present came a day late. Our Leaf is now a member of the 3-bar club. 21,834. We'll get the details in the wiki when we have time. We're busy using what little range we have...

Ouch! That's one rotten birthday present.

 

[EdmondLeaf]

Azdre's most costly birthday present came a day late. Our Leaf is now a member of the 3-bar club. 21,834. We'll get the details in the wiki when we have time. We're busy using what little range we have...

Azdre, I wish your next birthday will be much happier, happy birthday.

 

[davekern]

...When we got the car we would get about 75 - 80 miles. After the last software "upgrade" we dropped to 65-70.

Dave, are you saying there was a STEP change when the software was updated? Or that by the time you had it updated you were down to 65-70? When was that?
I've been wondering if my software update about 3 months ago didn't coincide with a noticeable apparent loss in kwH/bar,... presumably merely changing the scale of the bars and putting more at the lower end.
Shaun

Huge immediate loss with the software update. My wife and I both noticed it. I asked the dealer about it and even took it back but they just said "all is ok!"