Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

[EdmondLeaf]

09/10/2012 17,533 ABC Nissan
Phoenix, AZ
602-264-2332
abcnissan.com Maintenance inspection completed
Cabin air filter replaced
Tires rotated
Tire condition and pressure checked
12/13/2012 20,691 Michigan
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Saginaw, MI
Title #279A3480043 Title or registration issued
to manufacturer
02/18/2013 Auto Auction
Texas Listed as a manufacturer vehicle
Sold at auction

9CB

 

[MarkBC]

I had my 1 year service in January and they did the firmware update, to my protest. Of course my apparent range went down by about 20 km (a 100 km trip I used to be able to do with ease now pushes me right to the limit). This apparent range loss is of course supposedly done to protect the batteries from over-discharge, but it also achieves the effect of hiding the first bar or two of battery degradation I would have otherwise seen. I have been humming and hawing for 2 months about whether to lodge an official complaint and I think it would be better if I did have that on record. How do I go about doing that? I don't think it's too late now after two months, do you?

 

[mwalsh]

I had my 1 year service in January and they did the firmware update, to my protest. Of course my apparent range went down by about 20 km (a 100 km trip I used to be able to do with ease now pushes me right to the limit). This apparent range loss is of course supposedly done to protect the batteries from over-discharge, but it also achieves the effect of hiding the first bar or two of battery degradation I would have otherwise seen. I have been humming and hawing for 2 months about whether to lodge an official complaint and I think it would be better if I did have that on record. How do I go about doing that? I don't think it's too late now after two months, do you?

I get your disappointment, honestly I do. But I don't think a complaint will do much for you at this point, having just been there/done that myself - they won't put it back the way it was. Besides, rumor is there is a MANDATORY update featuring the same kind of changes (if not the exact ones we've already received) coming to coincide with the new battery warranty. So it may be moot point in a few weeks anyhow.

 

[smkettner]

Are you saying Nissan may take away more capacity to grant the warranty?
I think I may pass on the warranty if this is the case.

 

[mwalsh]

Are you saying Nissan may take away more capacity to grant the warranty?
I think I may pass on the warranty if this is the case.

I've seen that rumored here before today, yes.

 

[TomT]

They didn't actually take away any capacity. They simply hide 1.5 bars of the capacity below no bars with the new software so stupid journalists would not die by the side of the road... If you drive to VLB you will have exactly the same range before and after... I use a Gid meter so it is irrelevant to me anyway...

Are you saying Nissan may take away more capacity to grant the warranty?
I think I may pass on the warranty if this is the case.

 

[mwalsh]

They didn't actually take away any capacity. They simply hide 1.5 bars of the capacity below no bars with the new software so stupid journalists would not die by the side of the road... If you drive to VLB you will have exactly the same range before and after... I use a Gid meter so it is irrelevant to me anyway...

I, as you probably already know, believe they both hid the bars AND took away a smidgen of capacity for good measure.

 

[TimLee]

Does anyone else feel badly treated by Nissan?
Limited truth, Limited Honesty?
:shock: :shock: :shock:

 

[mwalsh]

Does anyone else feel badly treated by Nissan?
Limited truth, Limited Honesty?
:shock: :shock: :shock:

My opinion is that it's an absence of openness and lack of forthrightness. I've gotten more "crowd-sourced" information from this board than I ever would have received from Nissan. And I personally think that's been a huge mistake.

Take Tick-Tock's battery degradation projection chart, for example - from it, I've garnered that I'm fully on-track for the same kind of degradation pattern as the nominal vehicle shown there. Wouldn't it have been super if Nissan had charted that out for me instead of Tick-Tock (though I'm grateful to Tick-Tock for doing it)? :?

 

[TomT]

+1!

My opinion is that it's an absence of openness and lack of forthrightness. I've gotten more "crowd-sourced" information from this board than I ever would have received from Nissan. And I personally think that's been a huge mistake.

 

[ewodraska]

+1

Does anyone else feel badly treated by Nissan?
Limited truth, Limited Honesty?
:shock: :shock: :shock:

 

[Volusiano]

They didn't actually take away any capacity. They simply hide 1.5 bars of the capacity below no bars with the new software so stupid journalists would not die by the side of the road... If you drive to VLB you will have exactly the same range before and after... I use a Gid meter so it is irrelevant to me anyway...

I, as you probably already know, believe they both hid the bars AND took away a smidgen of capacity for good measure.

Sorry, I don't follow this, so can you guys clarify it a little more for us? What does it mean: "hide 1.5 bars of capacity below no bars"?

 

[mwalsh]

Sorry, I don't follow this, so can you guys clarify it a little more for us? What does it mean: "hide 1.5 bars of capacity below no bars"?

Really? OK, then. So you have 12 pictured fuel bars, right? Well now you have the 12 pictured plus 1.5 more, which are "hidden" below those you see pictured. Where each of the 12 pictured in "old bars" terminology was probably good for 6-6.5 miles, the 13.5 in the new scenario are each worth (probably) no more than 5.5 miles each.

 

[Volusiano]

Sorry, I don't follow this, so can you guys clarify it a little more for us? What does it mean: "hide 1.5 bars of capacity below no bars"?

Really? OK, then. So you have 12 pictured fuel bars, right? Well now you have the 12 pictured plus 1.5 more, which are "hidden" below those you see pictured. Where each of the 12 pictured in "old bars" terminology was probably good for 6-6.5 miles, the 13.5 in the new scenario are each worth (probably) no more than 5.5 miles each.

Thanks, this explanation is much clearer to me now. I thought you guys were talking about some new update just available this year. But I think you're talking about the old update from last year to make the SOC reading more stable/conservative, right? It's just that not everybody has had this update.

 

[planet4ever]

I had my 1 year service in January and they did the firmware update, to my protest. Of course my apparent range went down by about 20 km (a 100 km trip I used to be able to do with ease now pushes me right to the limit).

What do you mean by "pushes me right to the limit"? Did you see the turtle? How many km did you go after getting VLB? (i.e. after the GOM went to three dashes)

My concern is that, in line with the bars discussion just above, you may think you are at the limit when in fact you are nowhere close to it.

Ray

 

[TonyWilliams]

They didn't actually take away any capacity. They simply hide 1.5 bars of the capacity below no bars with the new software so stupid journalists would not die by the side of the road... If you drive to VLB you will have exactly the same range before and after... I use a Gid meter so it is irrelevant to me anyway...

I, as you probably already know, believe they both hid the bars AND took away a smidgen of capacity for good measure.

No, they didn't take away ANY capacity. It's all an instrumentation change. The Range Chart is indexed to the post March 2011 software. I recommend using the KNOWN quantity "warnings" and not the fuel bars for guessing your future range when the battery gets that low.

As Tom said, it has precisely the same amount of battery capacity, and the EXACT same amount of energy from LBW and VLB as previously. Even the 2013 is the same.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

looks like Phoenix has a lot to worry about

http://grist.org/climate-energy/the-least-sustainable-city-phoenix-as-a-harbinger-for-our-hot-future/?utm_source=syndication&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=feed" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[Stoaty]

looks like Phoenix has a lot to worry about

http://grist.org/climate-energy/the-least-sustainable-city-phoenix-as-a-harbinger-for-our-hot-future/?utm_source=syndication&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=feed" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes, I think it will be the first city to bite the dust due to climate change. However, predicting exactly when that will happen is a bit more difficult.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

looks like Phoenix has a lot to worry about

http://grist.org/climate-energy/the-least-sustainable-city-phoenix-as-a-harbinger-for-our-hot-future/?utm_source=syndication&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=feed" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes, I think it will be the first city to bite the dust due to climate change. However, predicting exactly when that will happen is a bit more difficult.

it will happen the day that water becomes more valuable than oil...but then again, that day has already come. we just havent realized it yet

 

[Joeviocoe]

looks like Phoenix has a lot to worry about

http://grist.org/climate-energy/the-least-sustainable-city-phoenix-as-a-harbinger-for-our-hot-future/?utm_source=syndication&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=feed" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes, I think it will be the first city to bite the dust due to climate change. However, predicting exactly when that will happen is a bit more difficult.

it will happen the day that water becomes more valuable than oil...but then again, that day has already come. we just havent realized it yet

Water is nothing like oil. There is a scarcity of water because we don't recycle it at the same rate we grow in consumption.
Oil takes millions of years to make.

We are sitting on 100 billion 'saudi arabias' of water... we just need to get the salt out of it.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/13/us-usa-desalination-idUSBRE92C05720130313" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;