Chevrolet Bolt & Bolt EUV

[LeftieBiker]

I suppose a front parking sonar unit would do, if it were accurate enough to detect poles and plastic bumpers. When is the IoniQ going on sale in NY?

 

[Stoaty]

The Bolt EV interior makes a Leaf SL feel like a Lexus in comparison.

That is all I need to know, Bolt is out for me. Leaf interior is fine by my standards, but don't want to go lower quality.

 

[LKK]

In all fairness we should note that a few EV journialists have a few good things to say about the Bolt

http://www.hybridcars.com/2017-chevy-bolts-trophy-case-is-filling-up/

 

[LeftieBiker]

If the car has hard front seats that's going to ruin it for about a third of the people who buy or lease it, including me. In the event I get one I'll probably have to sacrifice a front parking camera as well, as the Premiere is just too expensive (and has no all-cloth seat option) for me, especially with GM not passing on most of the Federal tax credit to lessees. So I'd have to either find good seat back cushions that fit the LT, or see if some other seat will bolt in, while I'm leasing it. I'd also have to find and install some sort of parking assist system so I don't crunch the nose. I really want that extra power and range, but with the reliability unknown at this point I have to ask myself if maybe getting a deal on a 2016 Leaf might make more sense for me.

BTW, GM is fighting the Takata airbag recall, saying that the existing units are safe. They just got a one year extension on recalling the vehicles they built with them, while they try to prove that. That too makes me less inclined to throw large amounts of money at them.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

...Why not instead compare the Bolt's cost to those vehicles somebody in their right mind might actually lease?

The Bolt's total lease cost (nearly $14,000 over three years before incentives) is about twice the price for the Volt or most of the ~30 kWh class BEVs:


http://ev-vin.blogspot.com/...

"should be" is the key takeaway there....

What do you mean?

Here is the original source, do you dispute it?

The Lease Program

... Here is GM Financial's lease program for 2017 Bolt EV through the end of this year...

Total Lease Cost: $14,558...(36 month term, including fees, before sales tax)

http://leasehackr.com/blog/2016/11/21/bolt-ev-lease-program-announced-309-month

yeah, i pretty much dispute the entire title because its an estimated $3600+ which is not "zero down" in my book

My lease was zero down which was a good thing cause I had $24 in my pocket with checkbook sitting in a drawer at home...

I am not saying the Bolt is a good thing cause it is... for some but the ideology that its a much better deal than the LEAF is simply way wrong.

Granted all lease deals are different but the Bolt is twice the price for twice the range so in reality a near dead heat on value...

BUT its a value not available for me or most of us

 

[abasile]

I've said that the only AFVs that make any economic sense for the average car buyer who can't benefit from the federal tax credits are some HEVs and lower-priced PHEVs like the Prius Prime.

It generally doesn't make economic sense to buy or lease any new car, whether AFV or ICE, at least without some sort of special incentives if they exist. For the first couple of years or so, depreciation usually outweighs all other ownership costs. (Of course, depreciation is baked into the price of leasing.)

However, thanks to depreciation, many used, "affordable" EVs (and some PHEVs) would make good economic sense to buyers whose situations can support their use. I think this point is currently under-appreciated. It seems odd to me that, with all of the concerns as to EV affordability, used EVs are sort of ignored. Yet, in general, far more used cars are sold each year in the US than new cars.

The big concern that many have about used EVs is the cost of battery replacement. But this seems to be overblown. Aside from the LEAF, capacity loss has not been a real issue with today's EVs. And even with the LEAF, I'm not aware of any cases where capacity loss has prevented a car from being used for short range purposes, i.e., a moderate commute or daily errands. Used EVs should generally be purchased with the expectation that the battery will last for a number of years, at least until the vehicle is profoundly depreciated anyway, though with the understanding that there will be some capacity loss during that time.

Admittedly, other expensive parts such as inverters and onboard chargers can fail on EVs. But the likelihood of a catastrophic part failure like that is probably lower than the risk of something big failing on a comparable ICE.

 

[mtndrew1]

The Bolt EV interior makes a Leaf SL feel like a Lexus in comparison.

That is all I need to know, Bolt is out for me. Leaf interior is fine by my standards, but don't want to go lower quality.

Give it a shot in person before writing it off but I was very disappointed. I can't fathom spending $43,000 on a car that feels like the Bolt inside.

The Bolt EV feels no nicer inside than a Honda Fit to me.

 

[LeftieBiker]

However, thanks to depreciation, many used, "affordable" EVs (and some PHEVs) would make good economic sense to buyers whose situations can support their use. I think this point is currently under-appreciated. It seems odd to me that, with all of the concerns as to EV affordability, used EVs are sort of ignored. Yet, in general, far more used cars are sold each year in the US than new cars.

I just asked about a car like mine on Ebay, one with both QC and Premium. I was hoping it might have less degradation than mine, so I asked the seller about using LeafSpy...

"The battery have factory warranty 10 years or 100000 ml ( start from sale
day), why you create problem which is does not exist ? ;-)
I'm not familiar
with LeafSpy app, if you like you may come over to my house ( car right
here on my driveway ),
and check any car conditions yourself before buying
this car - more then welcome ...
Or , you may set up appointment on my
local Nissan Dealer ( 7 miles away from me ) and they will check
everything for you - somebody from my customers do this, no problems."

 

[mtndrew1]

I went back to the auto show and took some video of the Bolt interior. I remain very disappointed in the materials but impressed by the packaging and indifferent on the exterior styling. Body assembly and paint quality were good. Typical GM, they shoot for the moon in one area and sacrifice everything else to achieve that metric. Anyhow the link is below.

https://youtu.be/isB6CS1EPyo

There was an LT on the turntable display but I couldn't get into it. The two-tone cloth looks much more upscale (from a distance) to me than the cheap monotone leather in the Premier but then you sacrifice some cool features like the surround cameras, rearview LCD screen in the mirror, etc.

 

[jjeff]

^^^ What is GMs fascination with a large shifter :? I mean the first Volts had one and the later ones did also but not as obtrusive.....I prefer something small like the Leaf's mouse or better yet on the dash like an older Prius....I mean it's not like anyone is going to shift this thing, just put it in gear and go :roll: From your video it looks like an awful lot of plastic for a vehicle approaching $40k

 

[mtndrew1]

From your video it looks like an awful lot of plastic for a vehicle approaching $40k

The car in this video had an MSRP well above $40,000. I don't remember exactly but it was something like $43,000 on the sticker.

 

[GRA]

I think GM took the right approach, spending the money on the battery in the base model, instead of loading it up with all sorts of gadgets that boost the company's profit margin but do nothing to correct what has always been the 'affordable' BEV's biggest problem, lack of range for the price. The latter has unfortunately been the case with most other 'affordable' BEVs to date. I expect that GM has baked into the current price enough margin to drop it by several thousand once the tax credit disappears.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I think GM took the right approach, spending the money on the battery in the base model, instead of loading it up with all sorts of gadgets that boost the company's profit margin but do nothing to correct what has always been the 'affordable' BEV's biggest problem, lack of range for the price.

The only reason for not making Surround View an available option on the LT is to force people who need it to buy the overpriced Premiere. That isn't the "right approach" in my opinion.

 

[user 10599]

In fairness to Chevy, many cars these days have that much plastic. Is it luxury? No. Did they promise luxury? No.

They promised a viable, decent range EV by a certain timeframe for a certain price point which sets a new standard for affordable EVs providing a certain range. Yes, that involves some trade-offs in terms of cost and weight invested in other areas.

What is key is that the market is soon receiving more options. Those for whom 80-100 mile range works can go with more affordable options (think Smart or Leaf S) or more luxury options (B250). But with the Bolt, those who need/want more range no longer have just a much more expensive Tesla as their only option.

 

[webeleafowners]

In fairness to Chevy, many cars these days have that much plastic. Is it luxury? No. Did they promise luxury? No.

They promised a viable, decent range EV by a certain timeframe for a certain price point which sets a new standard for affordable EVs providing a certain range. Yes, that involves some trade-offs in terms of cost and weight invested in other areas.

What is key is that the market is soon receiving more options. Those for whom 80-100 mile range works can go with more affordable options (think Smart or Leaf S) or more luxury options (B250). But with the Bolt, those who need/want more range no longer have just a much more expensive Tesla as their only option.

Good analogy. We fall into former category. We just bought an SL 2016. The chances of us needing more than 120 KM (80 miles) is probably slim to none and if we do need to go further on some rare occasion, there are sufficient DCFC's along any route we take.

Re the luxury thing. We found ourselves in a funny position. We definitely don't like leather seats and is a big reason why we chose the SV. The all around cameras just don't seem important to me. I know whats beside me, not so much behind. That may change as I get older.

 

[Rebel44]

I think GM took the right approach, spending the money on the battery in the base model, instead of loading it up with all sorts of gadgets that boost the company's profit margin but do nothing to correct what has always been the 'affordable' BEV's biggest problem, lack of range for the price. The latter has unfortunately been the case with most other 'affordable' BEVs to date. I expect that GM has baked into the current price enough margin to drop it by several thousand once the tax credit disappears.

I would prefer if they increased price by $500-1000 and provided better interior - based on video posted on previous page, interior materials appear to be comparable to my previous car - Fiat Panda, which was piece of **** €5K (new) car. Nobody expects some miracle, but to me it looks like GM went overboard with trying to lower cost of the Bolt.

 

[LeftieBiker]

The all around cameras just don't seem important to me. I know whats beside me, not so much behind. That may change as I get older.

I can use the side mirrors to see the curb. It's mainly the space in front of the nose that I need to see. And yes, I am OLD. ;-)

 

[mtndrew1]

I would prefer if they increased price by $500-1000 and provided better interior

This is my opinion as well, even if it were an option. Other automakers (notably Ford) do this and offer a premium interior upgrade package for a few hundred dollars and such an option would change my opinion of the Bolt considerably.

Even upgrading the Bolt to the interior materials of the Volt would make this a non-issue. Getting out of the Bolt and into the Volt at the auto show was a jarring contrast and made the Volt feel like a Cadillac.

This is such a GM way to save a few bucks; they'll fix it about six months after the Model 3 launches and steals its lunch and gives the Bolt a wedgie. Then they'll give it a $5,000 rebate and 0% financing for 72 months and put it in the back of the showroom during Truck Month™.

 

[GRA]

I think GM took the right approach, spending the money on the battery in the base model, instead of loading it up with all sorts of gadgets that boost the company's profit margin but do nothing to correct what has always been the 'affordable' BEV's biggest problem, lack of range for the price.

The only reason for not making Surround View an available option on the LT is to force people who need it to buy the overpriced Premiere. That isn't the "right approach" in my opinion.

I'm in total agreement about options bundling. There are many operationally useful and/or safety features I might want on any given car, but in order to get them I'd often be forced to also get leather seats (which I loathe) or some other 'comfort and convenience' option that I neither need or want. U.S. automakers have historically been better at offering a la carte options than imports have, but they're getting worse. It's probably just too expensive to do this for cars at the lower end of the market, which have the smallest (often no) profit margin.

 

[edatoakrun]

GM's compliance calculations (simplified) show just how few Bolts need be sold to comply with the 2017 CARB ZEV program, and why GM is so happy to lose money on each sale:

GM’s Ready to Lose $9,000 a Pop and Chase the Electric Car Boom

...Under the rules, GM needs to sell enough Bolts that it can go to town on other vehicles, including pickups and SUVS, which is where the big money is. The Bolt’s anticipated per-sale loss of roughly $8,000 to $9,000 is an estimate based on a sticker price of $37,500, according to a person familiar with the matter...

Here’s how the math works for GM in California. Let’s say it sells a total of 219,962 vehicles in one model year (as it did, in fact, in 2015). To avoid heavy fines or the threat of getting shut out entirely, it would need state-awarded ZEV credits equal to 14 percent of the total -- or 30,794. That would mean finding buyers for 7,698 Bolts, earning four credits for each...

“EVs are compliance vehicles and GM knows this,” said the CarLab’s Noble. “The Bolt will take sales from all of the other vehicles on the market, and GM will get a lot of credits.”

The more ZEVs a company peddles to the public, the more credits it earns, and those with a surplus can sell them to competitors that are falling behind. As an electric-only manufacturer, Tesla has been able to really tap the program. In the third quarter, it made $139 million selling credits, which helped Tesla hit its second-ever quarterly profit on a GAAP basis. The biggest buyer in the 11 months ending in August was Fiat Chrysler; GM purchased the smallest amount...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-30/gm-s-ready-to-lose-9-000-a-pop-and-chase-the-electric-car-boom