Chevrolet Bolt & Bolt EUV

[RegGuheert]

When people were sold the Leaf expecting 100 miles of range they were pretty unhappy with 75 miles - and steadily dropping. Someone who buys a Bolt expecting to have 200+ miles of range for the life of the car will be similarly unhappy if that range drops below 150 miles and GM just shrugs. Expectations keep rising along with battery density. Me, I only need 120 or so miles of range and a fast charge port, but I'm probably not typical.

I agree that expectations are rising with time. However, with the LEAF the range quickly dropped below the usable range for many people. That will not be the case with the Chevy Bolt (barring some serious disaster with their batteries, which I doubt).

 

[Stoaty]

If the battery has a TMS, why such a wide range of 10-40% loss in 8 years/100,000 miles?

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

If the battery has a TMS, why such a wide range of 10-40% loss in 8 years/100,000 miles?

its "CYA" marketing 101. Guessing unless you live in AZ you will be in the mid range most likely. one advantage of bleeding edge tech. it maybe a different manufacturer, different chemistry, etc. but expectations will always be higher than reality.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

A sure sign of the maturation of the EV industry will be when there is an industry standard for acceptable degradation, and corresponding warranties. For example, no more than 30% in 8 years/100k miles. Not to mention a standard means to measure remaining capacity.

For now, the uncertainty is one of many prices we pay to be on the bleeding edge of the revolution.

 

[jjeff]

I don't know the exact numbers off hand but I know there is a standard for ratings of things like LED light bulbs and flat screen TVs. The rated life warranty is something like no more than 50% brightness loss over the life of the device. I'd think some government agency could come up with a way to rate the life of EV batteries, of course with the new administrations feelings towards government agencies and regulations I'm not sure how likely that might be....

 

[edatoakrun]

A sure sign of the maturation of the EV industry will be when there is an industry standard for acceptable degradation, and corresponding warranties...

Since the conditions that accelerate pack degradation are entirely in the control of BEV owners, and entirely outside the control of BEV manufacturers, I would hope the EV industry will mature to the point where no warranties for degradation are offered at all.

Which of course is almost exactly what GM offers to Bolt buyers today...

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

A sure sign of the maturation of the EV industry will be when there is an industry standard for acceptable degradation, and corresponding warranties...

Since the conditions that accelerate pack degradation are entirely in the control of BEV owners, and entirely outside the control of BEV manufacturers, I would hope the EV industry will mature to the point where no warranties for degradation are offered at all.

Which of course is almost exactly what GM offers to Bolt buyers today...

that has already happened except in cases where the degradation was several magnitudes greater that advertised or expected... in case you hadn't noticed

 

[edatoakrun]

A sure sign of the maturation of the EV industry will be when there is an industry standard for acceptable degradation, and corresponding warranties...

Since the conditions that accelerate pack degradation are entirely in the control of BEV owners, and entirely outside the control of BEV manufacturers, I would hope the EV industry will mature to the point where no warranties for degradation are offered at all.

Which of course is almost exactly what GM offers to Bolt buyers today...

that has already happened except in cases where the degradation was several magnitudes greater that advertised or expected... in case you hadn't noticed

In case you hadn't noticed, a large volume of current posts on this forum are dedicated to advising to owners on how to abuse their batteries to accelerate degradation, since their LEAFs are retaining too many capacity bars on the dash display, under normal use.

With any effective battery capacity warrantee, those BEV buyers who take care of their batteries will have to pay to deliver the replacement batteries to the idiots who intentionally damage their own packs.

I fully support a society's obligation to support the mentally challenged, and willingly pay taxes for that purpose.

I don't see why we should pay more for any product, due to corporate policies such as battery capacity warranties, that encourage idiotic behavior from those who are not disabled, and who can and should be held to a higher standard.

 

[mtndrew1]

This is exactly why I could never bring myself to own a GM car. They're interiors are a horrid place. Ford does a much better job.

Here's the thing though, most GM interiors these days are at the top of the heap. Get in a Cruze and compare it to a Corolla, same with an Impala and an Avalon. There are a dozen comparisons like this where GM totally embarrasses their competition in interior materials, assembly and texture quality.

So what are the two main beefs with the Bolt EV ? Capacity warranty and interior materials. If GM had left a larger buffer on the top and bottom of the pack and had an EPA range of 210 miles they would have been able to have a 75% @100k miles warranty and nobody would have made mention of it. If they had spent $500 on better interior materials nobody would have complained.

Instead, so typically for GM, they shot for the moon on range (which is holy-crap impressive) and sacrificed major things to get there. GM's past is littered with these sorts of things.

 

[Stoaty]

In case you hadn't noticed, a large volume of current posts on this forum are dedicated to advising to owners on how to abuse their batteries to accelerate degradation, since their LEAFs are retaining too many capacity bars on the dash display, under normal use.

That advice is directed to people that should have been covered under a reasonable warranty, but may not be because Nissan didn't offer a pro-rated warranty. These people are right on the edge of losing 34% in 5 years/60,000 miles which is a very low bar for a car that Nissan said would last 10 years with 70% capacity remaining.

I am not following that advice because I am nowhere close to losing the 4th bar (and passed the 5 year mark 6 months ago).

Also, the major factor affecting battery longevity is NOT in the control of the owner, unless you figure they should move from say Arizona to Washington state to preserve battery capacity. Heat is the overriding factor in capacity loss; the owner can't change the climate where they live, except by emitting a lot of CO2 (and that will take decades, and the change will be in the wrong direction).

 

[jjeff]

....If GM had left a larger buffer on the top and bottom of the pack and had an EPA range of 210 miles they would have been able to have a 75% @100k miles warranty and nobody would have made mention of it. If they had spent $500 on better interior materials nobody would have complained.

Instead, so typically for GM, they shot for the moon on range (which is holy-crap impressive) and sacrificed major things to get there. GM's past is littered with these sorts of things.

Very much agree, like they want the Bolt to fail and then they can say we tried :?
Similar experience when I drove the first gen Volt. Very cramped interior, 4 passenger(come on GM who the hell else makes a 4 passenger car :? ) and expensive premium fuel required, all deal breakers for me. And I really doubt it would cost anywhere near $500 to make a nicer interior on the Bolt but I understand what your getting at. Of course since the Bolt has liquid cooling for it's battery that should really help in hot climates but again is GM trying to make this thing fail, designing a battery that will probably degrade little but not really giving it a warranty :?

 

[LKK]

This is exactly why I could never bring myself to own a GM car. They're interiors are a horrid place. Ford does a much better job.

Here's the thing though, most GM interiors these days are at the top of the heap. Get in a Cruze and compare it to a Corolla, same with an Impala and an Avalon. There are a dozen comparisons like this where GM totally embarrasses their competition in interior materials, assembly and texture quality.

So what are the two main beefs with the Bolt EV ? Capacity warranty and interior materials. If GM had left a larger buffer on the top and bottom of the pack and had an EPA range of 210 miles they would have been able to have a 75% @100k miles warranty and nobody would have made mention of it. If they had spent $500 on better interior materials nobody would have complained.

Instead, so typically for GM, they shot for the moon on range (which is holy-crap impressive) and sacrificed major things to get there. GM's past is littered with these sorts of things.

But didn't GM do just what you said they didn't with the Volt? Large buffers on top and bottom, and stating a realistic range which has remained the same for the majority of Volt owners over the last 6 years?

 

[mtndrew1]

This is exactly why I could never bring myself to own a GM car. They're interiors are a horrid place. Ford does a much better job.

Here's the thing though, most GM interiors these days are at the top of the heap. Get in a Cruze and compare it to a Corolla, same with an Impala and an Avalon. There are a dozen comparisons like this where GM totally embarrasses their competition in interior materials, assembly and texture quality.

So what are the two main beefs with the Bolt EV ? Capacity warranty and interior materials. If GM had left a larger buffer on the top and bottom of the pack and had an EPA range of 210 miles they would have been able to have a 75% @100k miles warranty and nobody would have made mention of it. If they had spent $500 on better interior materials nobody would have complained.

Instead, so typically for GM, they shot for the moon on range (which is holy-crap impressive) and sacrificed major things to get there. GM's past is littered with these sorts of things.

But didn't GM do just what you said they didn't with the Volt? Large buffers on top and bottom, and stating a realistic range which has remained the same for the majority of Volt owners over the last 6 years?

My Volts had 16 kWh on board and allowed me to use 10.4. I doubt the Bolt has a similar ratio of wiggle room (edit: that would imply a total Bolt pack size of 92 kWh) to guard against degradation and open up when it inevitably occurs.

If the Bolt had the same safeguards as the Volt they would have offered the same degradation warranty on both cars and nobody would have made a stink. Now they're allowing for 40% degradation over 10 years, 33% greater than the Volt.

With fewer cycles at a given odometer reading and lower C rates of charging and discharging this certainly makes a larger window of available capacity with small buffers plausible for the Bolt.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

In case you hadn't noticed, a large volume of current posts on this forum are dedicated to advising to owners on how to abuse their batteries to accelerate degradation, since their LEAFs are retaining too many capacity bars on the dash display, under normal use.

With any effective battery capacity warrantee, those BEV buyers who take care of their batteries will have to pay to deliver the replacement batteries to the idiots who intentionally damage their own packs.

I fully support a society's obligation to support the mentally challenged, and willingly pay taxes for that purpose.

I don't see why we should pay more for any product, due to corporate policies such as battery capacity warranties, that encourage idiotic behavior from those who are not disabled, and who can and should be held to a higher standard.

that is your theory and you are welcome to it. Mine is that Nissan knew they screwed up which is why the warranty was relatively easy to get from them and the money was set aside long ago to finance the program. So we are not actually supporting them.

 

[GRA]

Cute ad for the Ampera-e (EuroBolt), via ABG:

PSA: Electric vehicles are dangerous to bugs, and can surprise God

http://www.autoblog.com/2016/12/07/psa-electric-vehicles-dangerous-bugs-surprise-god/

 

[Birdrider]

This is exactly why I could never bring myself to own a GM car. They're interiors are a horrid place. Ford does a much better job.

Here's the thing though, most GM interiors these days are at the top of the heap. Get in a Cruze and compare it to a Corolla, same with an Impala and an Avalon. There are a dozen comparisons like this where GM totally embarrasses their competition in interior materials, assembly and texture quality.

So what are the two main beefs with the Bolt EV ? Capacity warranty and interior materials. If GM had left a larger buffer on the top and bottom of the pack and had an EPA range of 210 miles they would have been able to have a 75% @100k miles warranty and nobody would have made mention of it. If they had spent $500 on better interior materials nobody would have complained.

Instead, so typically for GM, they shot for the moon on range (which is holy-crap impressive) and sacrificed major things to get there. GM's past is littered with these sorts of things.

Embarrasses as in gets embarrassed by it's competition?

The Chevy Cruze is a particularly horrible interior. Clunky plastic garbage with horrible layout. Now I can't speak on the Corolla but if it's worse than the Cruze that doesn't somehow make the Cruze more acceptable.

Hell even compared to the leaf the Cruze is horrible. Which is funny because a Nissan Mirrano and versa are both horrid as well.

 

[WetEV]

News reports have Bolts delivered to customer today.

http://www.theverge.com/2016/12/13/13925272/chevy-bolt-electric-ev-delivery

 

[GRA]

News reports have Bolts delivered to customer today.

http://www.theverge.com/2016/12/13/13925272/chevy-bolt-electric-ev-delivery

One of the first lives in Castro Valley, so I've got a decent chance of spotting it soon during his commute; I may well have seen him in his i3 prior to this. More articles at http://insideevs.com/first-chevrolet-bolt-evs-delivered-nationwide-release-by-mid-2017/ and http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1107767_first-2017-chevy-bolt-ev-electric-car-sold-today-in-california

I was almost hoping that the first would be delivered on Dec. 17th, the anniversary of an earlier significant change in transportation. Maybe this date will someday be remembered similarly, although I suppose Dec. 2010 is more likely.

 

[evnow]

Here's the thing though, most GM interiors these days are at the top of the heap. Get in a Cruze and compare it to a Corolla, same with an Impala and an Avalon. There are a dozen comparisons like this where GM totally embarrasses their competition in interior materials, assembly and texture quality.

So what are the two main beefs with the Bolt EV ? Capacity warranty and interior materials. If GM had left a larger buffer on the top and bottom of the pack and had an EPA range of 210 miles they would have been able to have a 75% @100k miles warranty and nobody would have made mention of it. If they had spent $500 on better interior materials nobody would have complained.

Instead, so typically for GM, they shot for the moon on range (which is holy-crap impressive) and sacrificed major things to get there. GM's past is littered with these sorts of things.

The high warranty of Volt was mainly because of CARB regulations that wanted 10 year warranty for hybrid drivetrains. It is a heavy price to pay for BEVs and we shouldn't expect that kind of buffer left in a BEV.

 

[NeilBlanchard]

The Bolt EV interior makes a Leaf SL feel like a Lexus in comparison.

That is all I need to know, Bolt is out for me. Leaf interior is fine by my standards, but don't want to go lower quality.

Give it a shot in person before writing it off but I was very disappointed. I can't fathom spending $43,000 on a car that feels like the Bolt inside.

The Bolt EV feels no nicer inside than a Honda Fit to me.

"Feeling nice" is a subjective thing.

How it works is what matters most.