Chevrolet Bolt & Bolt EUV

[GetOffYourGas]

With more than 300k T3 reservations and GM struggling to move Bolts off the lots I don't think Elon is going to lose any sleep over this.

Me neither. Range matters. Charging infrastructure matters more. Tesla has a coast-to-coast network of multi-bay >100kW charging stations. GM says that they have no intention of investing a dime in infrastructure. As a result, the CCS network will remain a cobbled-together system of poorly placed chargers for at least the remainder of the decade.

I expect the VW agreement will change that

Yes, that is a great plan. And I hope that it happens like that. However, I don't have as high expectations as you do. Maybe my view is just jaded living in upstate NY versus you living in the Bay Area. Our President just told people that they should simply move out, and leave their homes behind.

http://www.syracuse.com/state/index.ssf/2017/07/trump_leave_upstate_ny_jobs.html

When you have an area that just isn't working like upper New York state, where people are getting very badly hurt, and then you'll have another area 500 miles away where you can't get people, I'm going to explain, you can leave. It's OK. Don't worry about your house.

But I digress.

VW's plan calls for filling in I-87 and I-90. We will see. I expect to see that happen sometime early in the next decade, not in this one. Assuming of course that the EV "revolution" doesn't ultimately fail to catch on.

 

[Durandal]

VW's plan calls for filling in I-87 and I-90. We will see. I expect to see that happen sometime early in the next decade, not in this one. Assuming of course that the EV "revolution" doesn't ultimately fail to catch on.

I'm not counting on any automakers to get their crap together beyond Tesla. Hence my next purchase being a Model 3. In any event, the EV revolution WILL happen, whether or not people like it due to the economics of autonomous vehicles. With BEV transportation being 1/3 the cost of ICE from a fuel/maintenance perspective, once autonomous ride sharing is a thing, you'll see a lot of autonomous electric vehicles replacing all of the Uber and Lyft vehicles you see now, and probably the rest of normal taxi cars as well, with exception to higher-end services.

3/4 of the people who I have given rides in my Leaf want an electric vehicle in the future, even if they're still convinced it "doesn't work right now." All it takes is getting those people to replace a commuter car with a BEV, even if they keep their "road trip" car, and the seed is planted. Either someone will have to step up on charging, or everyone will be driving a Tesla, who knows..

 

[GRA]

Me neither. Range matters. Charging infrastructure matters more. Tesla has a coast-to-coast network of multi-bay >100kW charging stations. GM says that they have no intention of investing a dime in infrastructure. As a result, the CCS network will remain a cobbled-together system of poorly placed chargers for at least the remainder of the decade.

I expect the VW agreement will change that

Yes, that is a great plan. And I hope that it happens like that. However, I don't have as high expectations as you do.

I don't have high expectations, I have a belief in the legal system and the power of even more bad P.R. to affect their bottom line if VW doesn't follow-through. I know that California will hold their feet to the fire, and it's up to the other states and the federal government to do likewise. The money's already there.

Maybe my view is just jaded living in upstate NY versus you living in the Bay Area. Our President just told people that they should simply move out, and leave their homes behind.

http://www.syracuse.com/state/index.ssf/2017/07/trump_leave_upstate_ny_jobs.html

When you have an area that just isn't working like upper New York state, where people are getting very badly hurt, and then you'll have another area 500 miles away where you can't get people, I'm going to explain, you can leave. It's OK. Don't worry about your house.

But I digress.

VW's plan calls for filling in I-87 and I-90. We will see. I expect to see that happen sometime early in the next decade, not in this one. Assuming of course that the EV "revolution" doesn't ultimately fail to catch on.

It remains an uphill battle with gas prices so low, but I really do think PEVs that are now available have a chance of crossing the chasm to the mainstream consumer. The Model 3 will get people a long ways there, and PHEVs are there for those who can't/won't make the full leap. As for whatever stream of (semi-) consciousness happens to erupt out of the President's mouth/thumbs at any given moment, I've basically stopped paying attention. Per Macbeth:

Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing.

The best thing we can do is ignore him.

 

[GRA]

Over on the mychevybolt forum:

Test drive from Los Angeles to Las Vegas

http://www.mychevybolt.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=6876&hilit=tahoe

And return. Took it slow on the way out, but used A/C set at 70 (max. ambient 109), and made it with 55 miles left after charging to 203 miles/96% at Victorville. 70 mph or flow of traffic if slower on the way back, and made it to Victorville with 3% left.

 

[edatoakrun]

RE Bolt prices and discounts, it is probably more useful to look at leasing costs, rather than sale prices.

Note that 36 month total lease costs for Bolts have been reduced to the $8k range, and now appear to be ~$1k lower for than for Chevy Volts...

http://ev-vin.blogspot.com/2016/07/current-lease-offers-for-selected-evs.html

 

[edatoakrun]

This interview goes far beyond the Bolt, with comparisons to his earlier i-3 teardown, other BEVs, battery designs, etc.

I had it on in the background, I'm now ~ 80 minutes into this rambling 90 minute program, and plan on listening again...

Tearing Into The Chevy Bolt EV - Autoline After Hours 385

Streamed live on Jul 13, 2017
TOPIC: Chevrolet Bolt EV
SPECIAL GUEST: Sandy Munro, Munro & Associates

You may want to skip the first ~5 minutes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sl3cUMIX9Uo

 

[edatoakrun]

How can Chevy ever sell many tiny Bolts even with all the discounts, incentives, and tax credits, when you can get much more ICEV, for the ~same net price, on the same lot?

Impressive fuel efficiency, considering this is one of the over-sized vehicles people seem to want.

Chevy Equinox diesel offers EPA-rated 39 mpg hwy; starts at $31,435

15 August 2017

The 2018 Chevrolet Equinox offers an EPA-certified 39 mpg (6.03 l/100 km) on the highway (FWD model) with the available 1.6L turbo-diesel engine. (Earlier post.)

GM expects that number to top the segment in highway fuel economy, with greater highway mileage than the 2017 Toyota RAV4 hybrid (30 mpg) and Nissan Rogue hybrid (35 mpg FWD). A 577-mile cruising range (FWD) also means the Equinox diesel can drive farther between fill-ups...

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2017/08/20170815-equinox.html

 

[LeftieBiker]

I'm guessing that the real world highway economy of a 1.6 turbo diesel in a heavy vehicle, driven by lead-footed Americans, will be more like 30. Maybe even less.

 

[jjeff]

Still if I could get an Equinox EV, even if it would only get 1/2 the range of the Bolt, I would, even if $8.5k more than the diesel Equinox

 

[LKK]

Still if I could get an Equinox EV, even if it would only get 1/2 the range of the Bolt, I would, even if $8.5k more than the diesel Equinox

GM already has a Voltec powertrain in the Malibu Hybrid which can be dropped into the Equinox. The diesel ICE is considerably more expensive than the ICE used in the Malibu, I'm guessing about $3K more when you take into account all the extra emissions equipment. This cost difference could go into a larger battery. When the Bolt was torn down by Monro they estimated the all-up battery costs to be, I believe, around $215/kwh, so that extra 3 grand could pay for a 14 kwh battery which is about the size of the battery in the Volt. So a plug in Equinox makes more sense to me than a diesel Eqinox about 40 miles range and 40 MPG on the highway. GM could have made a plug in Equinox from parts they have on the shelf, but elected instead to spend money uselessly on a nitch market diesel, go figure.

 

[DanCar]

Still if I could get an Equinox EV, even if it would only get 1/2 the range of the Bolt, I would, even if $8.5k more than the diesel Equinox

+1

 

[HIOJim]

Still if I could get an Equinox EV, even if it would only get 1/2 the range of the Bolt, I would, even if $8.5k more than the diesel Equinox

GM already has a Voltec powertrain in the Malibu Hybrid which can be dropped into the Equinox. The diesel ICE is considerably more expensive than the ICE used in the Malibu, I'm guessing about $3K more when you take into account all the extra emissions equipment. This cost difference could go into a larger battery. When the Bolt was torn down by Monro they estimated the all-up battery costs to be, I believe, around $215/kwh, so that extra 3 grand could pay for a 14 kwh battery which is about the size of the battery in the Volt. So a plug in Equinox makes more sense to me than a diesel Eqinox about 40 miles range and 40 MPG on the highway. GM could have made a plug in Equinox from parts they have on the shelf, but elected instead to spend money uselessly on a nitch market diesel, go figure.

Voltec in a crossover SUV would sell like hotcakes. I've heard rumors about them offering one in 2022 but that's so far out as to be meaningless.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Just where will they put that 14kwh pack...? The Volt was designed from the ground up to accept one in the "frame."

 

[HIOJim]

Just where will they put that 14kwh pack...? The Volt was designed from the ground up to accept one in the "frame."

Good point, but I wasn't thinking about a direct 'drop-in' of the existing Volt system but something similar to it with a flat floorboard battery.

 

[LKK]

Just where will they put that 14kwh pack...? The Volt was designed from the ground up to accept one in the "frame."

I just checked, the Equinox and Volt share the same D2XX platform. It could use the same T shaped battery pack under the floor plan but wouldn't be as intrusive in the Equinox because it sits a lot higher.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Cool.

 

[GRA]

Via IEVS, Tom Moloughney's review of a week with a Bolt Premier, and how it compares to his i3 REx:

2017 Chevrolet Bolt EV Extended Test Drive Review

http://insideevs.com/2017-chevrolet-bolt-ev-extended-test-drive-review/

Generally very positive except for the usual complaints about seat comfort (For him. His wife was fine) and interior materials feeling cheap, plus the lack of an extensive QC network. Here's what he had to say about range:

I planned two road trips to see how efficient the Bolt was at highway speeds with the air conditioning on and the results were very good. I averaged 4.0 miles per kWh for both trips, and I was driving 75 – 80 mph for much of the time with the air conditioning on. In all, I drove the car 800 miles and averaged 4.1 miles per kWh. That’s pretty respectable considering I had the air conditioning on all the time, and also drove in a couple rainstorms.

The first trip was a day trip to Bayhead down at the Jersey shore. The round trip was 147 miles and the Bolt consumed 36.5 kWh. My second trip was to Vermont and was over 200 miles each way. On the trip there the Bolt needed 51.1 kWh for the 203.4 mile journey. I’ve made this trip before in my i3 but always needed to stop along the way a couple times and use a DC Fast charger. Arriving at my destination with about 30 miles of remaining range, after driving over 200 miles on a single charge was really liberating. The Bolt minimizes the potential concern of range anxiety extremely well, and only the proliferation of nation-wide high-speed DC fast charge infrastructure will completely eliminate it.

He also had this to say about GM's implementation of regen controls:

While I could have discussed the Bolt’s regenerative braking system in the previous section, I was so impressed by how GM implemented this feature that I wanted to dedicate more time reviewing it.

Manufacturers are still struggling to find the best way to implement the regenerative braking systems on their electric vehicle offerings. I know this for a fact, because I have personally been asked by more than one OEM to run polls and surveys among the EV community to gather information regarding how current EV drivers like or dislike the way the system is implemented in the EVs that they have driven. I now have a simple answer to give whenever I’m asked about my thoughts on regenerative braking: Just do what GM did with the Bolt EV.

The Bolt offers a regen setting for everyone. You want your car to act like your old gasser did? Then just leave it drive and the car will coast when you back off on the accelerator. In this mode it will still recapture some energy because it’s not totally freewheel coasting, but the level of regen is very mild. If you want a more aggressive regen, pull the shifter back and pop the car in low and you’ll instantly have the one-pedal driving experience that so many EV enthusiasts talk about. If GM had stopped there, the Bolt’s system would still be the best regenerative braking system available today, but they didn’t. They added a regen-on-demand paddle on the left side of the steering wheel that works so well, you can virtually drive all day without touching the friction brakes. This regen paddle initiates such strong regenerative braking, you can even stop the car on a steep decline nearly as quickly as friction braking would.

To give you an idea of how strong the regen is, if you’re driving in low, and pull in the regen paddle, it literally feels like you deployed a parachute to slow the car down! While this may be unsettling for many first-time EV owners, I believe they will quickly become accustomed to this, and before long love how it works. Personally, I like my regen strong, but I understand that not every EV owner will agree with me. What really makes the Bolt’s regen implementation special is that it can adjust to what the driver wants. You can select drive or low; you can use the regen paddle or not – there’s a level of regen for everyone. GM nailed it. There isn’t another regenerative braking system on the market that is this good. Period.

 

[EatsShootsandLeafs]

I saw perhaps my second Bolt yesterday. My first thought was I was behind this small chevy hatchback thinking "man, that thing is small, but I don't recognize it, so it must be a new spark or something". Then I saw the little Bolt EV badge on it. Followed it a few more min and saw it from the side.

I just don't get that vehicle at all. I'm frankly shocked anybody would pay $35k for it. It looks precisely like a sub $20k compact car. I think the current leaf looks a bit weird, but its weirdness also set it apart.

The bolt in my opinion only makes sense in the same scenario the leaf makes sense: lease deals. I know it's quick with range, but it it is a very small vehicle that bolt. And spectacularly pedestrian in appearance

 

[edatoakrun]

...I just don't get that vehicle at all. I'm frankly shocked anybody would pay $35k for it. It looks precisely like a sub $20k compact car...

And when you drive one, the interior may remind you of the sonic you rented...as it did for me.

On the other hand, I wish I could rent a Bolt instead of an ICEV, for the few trips a year where I'd want the extra range, and I could easily put up with its shortcomings for a few days.

But I wouldn't want to own or lease one, and have to drive it (and pay for it) every day.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

And when you drive one, the interior may remind you of the sonic you rented...as it did for me.

That's not the impression I got of the interior at all. When I drove one, I thought "wow, this is a fast, tight-handling pocket-rocket of a car!"

On the other hand, I wish I could rent a Bolt instead of an ICEV, for the few trips a year where I'd want the extra range, and I could easily put up with its shortcomings for a few days.

There's an idea. If only my local rental company rented any electric vehicles...