Chevrolet Bolt & Bolt EUV

[Randy]

Probably a mistake, but the local news is saying a freeway pedestrian was struck and killed by a Chevy Bolt....

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/jan/12/pedestrian-killed-interstate-5-old-town-identified/

 

[user 10599]

My money says it is a mistake. One problem of Volt and Bolt being so similar both phonetically and with the V and B being next to each other on the keyboard.

 

[LKK]

Probably a mistake, but the local news is saying a freeway pedestrian was struck and killed by a Chevy Bolt....

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/jan/12/pedestrian-killed-interstate-5-old-town-identified/

A TV report on this fatality showed a number of cars pulled over on the freeway, one was a Volt.

 

[edatoakrun]

GM may be the manufacturer that most clearly understands how vital the DC infrastructure is to BEVs, and that is why it seems most determined to do all it can to block its development...

Fairly definitive statement below, indicating GM's love affair with the PHEV is not over.

Looks like GM does in fact want to electrify its vehicles in the worst way, which is by continuing to manufacture and sell obsolescent PHEVs, without DC capability, like the Volt.

And so, it sounds like it will continue to promote only AC public charge sites, which are nearly useless to BEV drivers wanting to make longer tirps.

GM Won't Fund CCS Fast-Charging Sites For 2017 Chevy Bolt EV

From CEO Mary Barra: "We are not actively working on providing infrastructure [for the Bolt EV]."

From electrification exec Pam Fletcher: "We believe all our customers should benefit from any infrastructure spending."...

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1101774_gm-wont-fund-ccs-fast-charging-sites-for-2017-chevy-bolt-ev

MODERATORS NOTE: Please respect fair use copyright laws when quoting articles. Quote trimmed.

 

[BernieTx]

Looks like GM does in fact want to electrify its vehicles in the worst way, which is by continuing to manufacture and sell obsolescent PHEVs, without DC capability, like the Volt.
...

GM Won't Fund CCS Fast-Charging Sites For 2017 Chevy Bolt EV

...And it has said a CCS quick-charging port will be an option on the 2017 Bolt EV...
...From CEO Mary Barra: "We are not actively working on providing infrastructure [for the Bolt EV]."

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1101774_gm-wont-fund-ccs-fast-charging-sites-for-2017-chevy-bolt-ev

How interesting; Is a 200+mile EV usable without a DCFC fast charging network? What if GM put fast chargers at GM dealerships, like Nissan? Would that make a big difference to Bolt sales?

 

[garsh]

How interesting; Is a 200+mile EV usable without a DCFC fast charging network?

It's useful as long as your destination is within 100 miles of your location, or 200 miles if there is convenient charging available at the destination. The average person will not want to deal with locating & using fast chargers for longer journeys. So the bolt is just a better "commuter" car that can handle additional running around.

What if GM put fast chargers at GM dealerships, like Nissan? Would that make a big difference to Bolt sales?

No. The fast chargers at Nissan dealerships have been a fiasco. Many chargers are only accessible when the dealership is open. Some dealers refuse to let you use them unless you bought your car there. And dealerships are not often conveniently located right along the interstate that you'll be taking on your long-distance trip.

 

[edatoakrun]

..Is a 200+mile EV usable without a DCFC fast charging network?...

Usable, but not very useful.

Remember, a BEV with a ~30 kWh pack (2016 LEAF) and ~50 kW charging can cover long distances in less time than a BEV with a ~60 kWh pack (2017 Bolt) and ~25 kW charging.

BTW, notice how BMW so far has put most of its $ behind CCS charge sites tailored to its i-3 BEVx?

The network of single 24kWh charger sites (without even AC back-up chargers, for when the single DC is in-use or out of order) BMW is developing will not be all that useful to Bolt drivers, and I doubt that's unintentional...

 

[mwalsh]

Being as I'm personally not one for driving more than 250-275 miles with either no stopping or only short stops in a single day, I'm not sure I see the need for CCS with the 32A L2 charging factored in (which alone should give you ~25 miles per hour on the EVSE). Even driving that kind of distance is rare for me, happening only once or twice a year on average.

Thinking about my driving life, I can only recall exceeding 275 miles of driving in a single day (and certainly when it comes to non-stop) a couple of times in 37 years behind the wheel.

Your mileage (literally) may vary.

 

[scottf200]

How interesting; Is a 200+mile EV usable without a DCFC fast charging network? What if GM put fast chargers at GM dealerships, like Nissan? Would that make a big difference to Bolt sales?

What percentage of daily driving is > 100 miles?


So now consider cold weather areas and no sacrifices for using the heat for your kids/family/friends.
So now consider emergency travels in the middle of the day from your office to take your kids/spouse to doctor.
So now consider unknown construction or wrecks.

These types of very real fears/anxieties for the general public (vs earlier adopters or tech geeks) can be very much reduced with a 200+ mile BEV as a daily driver.

http://gm-volt.com/2007/12/06/how-did-gm-determine-that-78-of-commuters-drive-less-than-40-miles-per-day/

Published by the U.S. Department of Transportation, Bureau of Transportation Statistics, the Omnibus Household Survey, or OmniStats data, were based on a household survey of 1000 randomly selected households asked about their driving habits in the previous one month (done in 2003).

 

[evnow]

Bolt & Leaf are for people who do not plan on taking long drives in the EV.

If you want more reliable long driving charging network, you need to get a Model 3.

Infact, I think this is how the market will start looking at Bolt/Leaf vs Model 3. This is why I think Bolt/Leaf can only survive vs Model 3 if they are cheaper than the Tesla.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

Sounds like GM wants to save the money. Maybe banking on government and private installs. Wouldn't stop dealerships from installing one if they wanted. All the upcoming state installs here will be dual and along highways. eVgo is putting in dual units, and they're already planning for 100 kW.

 

[LKK]

I believe GM's reluctance towards supporting CCS is because they feel the extended range plugin concept they pioneered with the Volt is the way to go until battery costs for the extended range fall below the cost of an ICE and until the infrastructure matches gas in terms of availability and time to refuel. I know this does not go down well on this forum. I think they view the Bolt as primarily a commuter car backed up by another (GM?) petrol burning car for longer trips. I think GM is committed to electrification, but I believe their view of the near future is a mixture of ICE, hybrid and extended range plugin vehicles across their entire line up.

 

[TomT]

Which is probably quite reasonable thinking...

I think GM is committed to electrification, but I believe their view of the near future is a mixture of ICE, hybrid and extended range plugin vehicles across their entire line up.

 

[pkulak]

Which is probably quite reasonable thinking...

I think GM is committed to electrification, but I believe their view of the near future is a mixture of ICE, hybrid and extended range plugin vehicles across their entire line up.

Yup, and frankly, I appreciate their honesty. ChargePoint already has a bunch of combo chargers near me and they are only charging $0.15 per kWh. If they can make that work, then I don't see why GM needs to get involved. Maybe there really is a viable business here.

 

[Evoforce]

How interesting; Is a 200+mile EV usable without a DCFC fast charging network?

It's useful as long as your destination is within 100 miles of your location, or 200 miles if there is convenient charging available at the destination. The average person will not want to deal with locating & using fast chargers for longer journeys. So the bolt is just a better "commuter" car that can handle additional running around.

What if GM put fast chargers at GM dealerships, like Nissan? Would that make a big difference to Bolt sales?

No. The fast chargers at Nissan dealerships have been a fiasco. Many chargers are only accessible when the dealership is open. Some dealers refuse to let you use them unless you bought your car there. And dealerships are not often conveniently located right along the interstate that you'll be taking on your long-distance trip.

I just got through typing this big, long, blowhard speech speaking to the choir, and I drug my hand across the wrong way on the keyboard and it zapped it into thin air completely wiping it out. Grrr! I hate that when it happens. I don't even know how or why it does it. Anyway...

Because things haven't gone perfectly in the past only means we need to improve them. Gas stations didn't roll out perfectly and neither will charging stations. A gas car can go generally over 300 miles yet we find gas stations on every other street corner. We have quick charge stations too few and far in between. I don't need to tell this experienced crowd what the positives and negatives are existing with the current ones.

For people who are not enthusiasts like most of us, They expect nothing less that what they are getting from their ICE vehicle. So longer distance EV's and a proliferation of reliable, fast and convenient charging stations are essential. I find that the 2 electric cars that I now own are better than ICE in every way but range and refueling ability. Those of us who are enthusiast need to continue to push the industry to do more and better, so the rest of the public can embrace these much better vehicles.

 

[TonyWilliams]

What's the upper limit on the CCS units? 100 kW? If Chevy puts some 100 kW units out there...

GM is not going to put in ANY charging infrastructure (see Green Car Reports today).

The spec is 200 amps, so with a 395 volt battery in the Bolt, the max would be slightly below 80kW with the "100kW" charger. With a depleted battery at 300 volts, that is only 60kW.

 

[EVDRIVER]

Will the Bolt have a larger solar panel on the roof than the LEAF? If so then I may reconsider the Bolt as an option.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Will the Bolt have a larger solar panel on the roof than the LEAF? If so then I may reconsider the Bolt as an option.

Yes, a HUUUUUUuuuuuuuge solar panel that will increase your range by 0.0000001 mile

 

[garsh]

Those of us who are enthusiast need to continue to push the industry to do more and better, so the rest of the public can embrace these much better vehicles.

I see Tesla as the company that is doing everything possible to create EVs that can replace ICE vehicles. I'm hoping I can replace my Leaf with a Model 3 to help support their vision.

It's not that I think GM and Nissan are bad in any way. But they have their traditional industry to fall back on (and to support), so they can afford to take things safe and slow. But if Tesla can continue to show them that there's a big opportunity here, the other manufacturers will catch up. That's OK.

The Bolt sounds like a really nice EV. I would love to have one to replace my Leaf. I could use it to visit the relatives who live 50 miles away. In the winter. While carrying my whole family. But I still couldn't have used it for the road trip we took from Pittsburgh to St. Louis last summer.

 

[GRA]

Yes, that's a factor that consumers weigh against problematic BEVs issues, but it's not an overwhelming one.
Consider what europeans pay for fuel versus the U.S. (+2X) and high fuel prices haven't overcome key BEV
issues there.

They also pay higher electricity prices on average, and drive shorter distances than Americans do. Here at least, the price of gas remains key to PEV market share.

The higher electricity prices are not that significant relative to the much higher fuel costs premium being paid.
Furthermore, the shorter driving distances should further facilitate present sub-200 mile BEV acceptance,
which has not been the case in Europe versus the U.S. Have you possibly forgotten some of your FCEVs
supporting arguments/issues over BEVs on the FCEV thread? One tends to discount the consumer's
perceived values of a BEV versus an ICEV which is not always quantifiable. Yes, the price of gas is factor but
not the dominant one!

Bottom Line: Gas prices have more of an effect on whether consumers transition to small or large ICEVs
than transition to BEVs.

Haven't forgotten my arguments re FCEVs, just pointing out that ALL 'fuel' costs in Europe are higher than ours, especially when you consider that a much higher % of the population lives in apartments/townhouses and would need public (presumably more expensive than home, and far more limited availability) charging. The main driver of PEV sales in Europe is the same one as here, government subsidies/perks, with some closure of city centers to non-ZEVs.