CNN Money stupidity

[Herm]

And Herm, the Volt won't even be in production 24 months from now. It's "tiny Kwh" replacement will not qualify for the EV tax credit so the new cars price will be the same with half the range. Only GM could come up with this as an "EV strategy". :roll:

The funny part is that the $7500 tax credit was written with the Volt in mind, thats why it has a cap at 16kwh of battery. It pays to have political influence.

All I'm saying is that the Volt appears to have an accurate range estimator.. from the many complaints here (and with limited distribution still) Nissan needs to work on theirs.. apparently it is very unpopular when suddenly the meter steals 20 miles of range from under you. Maybe Nissan needs a pessimistic range estimator to avoid this issue.

 

[Smidge204]

The funny part is that the $7500 tax credit was written with the Volt in mind, thats why it has a cap at 16kwh of battery. It pays to have political influence.

I always thought it was the other way around - the Volt was designed to meet the minimum requirements to get the full tax credit... this seems more logical to me since the technical specs may have to change for various reasons, and would be easier to change the specs than the law.

As for the Volt's range indicator - maybe it's not more accurate, but Volt owners don't care/notice/complain as much since it kicks over to gas automatically without interruption?
=Smidge=

 

[SkiTundra]

As for the Volt's range indicator - maybe it's not more accurate, but Volt owners don't care/notice/complain as much since it kicks over to gas automatically without interruption.

I think this is it. A better comparison might be a Tesla which does have a somewhat pessimistic range indicator, though with a 250-300 mile range it's easier to give a pessimistic estimate and still have something to show. I think Tesla owners also had different expectations and were perhaps a bit more tolerant of issues.

Perhaps Nissan needs to do a better job of including presumed climate control in it's calc and assume some amount of uphill in coming miles (I assume they currently assume flat roads ahead). Better, if using nav do an accurate calc based on geo data.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

ok, another article taking facts and pushing them towards a one-sided opinion.

but does it not seem obvious to anyone that he received the car on an 80% charge and not 100%?

 

[Herm]

I believe Nissan will fix this issue with a software patch soon, its creating too much bad publicity..

I believe Volt takes the previous history for the last few days in calculating the estimated range, it does not react as quick as Nissan's range estimator. I dont follow Volt forums much anymore but I have never seen a complaint about that.. I have seen many comments on how accurate it is... something like this: "I see the miles counting down to zero and then the engine starts"

Volt came first, then a year later came the tax credit.

 

[Herm]

but does it not seem obvious to anyone that he received the car on an 80% charge and not 100%?

He got the car at 100% charge, but the range estimator dropped to 80 miles the moment he started using it.

EDIT: sorry, I misread the article, the car showed 70 miles remaining when he got it.. it may have been charged to full but impossible to know?

 

[sproqitman]

but does it not seem obvious to anyone that he received the car on an 80% charge and not 100%?

He got the car at 100% charge, but the range estimator dropped to 80 miles the moment he started using it.

When we charge our car to 100%, the range estimator shows 73 miles. That's because we live on top of a hill. By the time we reach the bottom of the hill, range is up to 100+. The range estimator is a nice idea, but the execution is seriously flawed.

 

[StrangerTides]

I have to agree with those who say the article is pretty fair. He didn't go out of his way to bash the car or purposely strand himself - he tried to be careful and make the mileage last, and it didn't work out for him.

The only "stupidity" I see is that it's simply not a real-world scenario that someone with absolutely no way to charge would buy an EV!

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

but does it not seem obvious to anyone that he received the car on an 80% charge and not 100%?

He got the car at 100% charge, but the range estimator dropped to 80 miles the moment he started using it.

ok, i did not read any of the 3 pages of posts on this thread, but i did read the article and let me QUOTE

Except the car, delivered with a full battery, showed only 70 miles of range.

charge settings are HUMAN interactions. we are a very very very very (hope u get my meaning) FLAWED race.

i feel it very likely that the tech set the charge to 80% accidentally and had he not wasted a ton of gas trucking the car to the guy, he would have realized his mistake.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

but does it not seem obvious to anyone that he received the car on an 80% charge and not 100%?

He got the car at 100% charge, but the range estimator dropped to 80 miles the moment he started using it.

When we charge our car to 100%, the range estimator shows 73 miles. That's because we live on top of a hill. By the time we reach the bottom of the hill, range is up to 100+. The range estimator is a nice idea, but the execution is seriously flawed.

OMG!! why are we defending this guy?? let me quote again!!!

Then I started driving and things suddenly looked worse. Instead of going down gradually, the range dropped fast and hard. The battery was being drained like a Budweiser keg at a frat party. In a just few blocks, 70 miles turned to 65.

i c YOUR point, but where is HIS hill??

 

[Train]

The article was fair. He got about 50 miles on one charge in the city with the climate control in use. Some need to dial down the paranoia here and think that any negative press about the Leaf is some grand conspiracy to doom BEV's. EV's will live or die on their own merits.

Pointing out what they can't do or their shortcomings is not a hit piece. Especially by someone who states up front quite clearly, he wanted to 60 miles in three days without charging.

 

[tps]

where is HIS hill??

Could have been the New Jersey Palisades, if he went across the George Washington bridge as I did.

I'm not sure exactly how to fix the elevation thing with the LEAF's range estimate. Let's say you're climbing. How does the car know whether you'll continue to climb, stay level, or start descending?

 

[omkar]

My two cents..

The article's content is a fair representation of the owner's experience.
CNN publishing something like this on the front page of their Money section is absurd and the real problem as it contributes to the FUD around the LEAF and electric vehicles.

 

[GeorgeParrott]

What is an apparent "problem" with the Leaf, IMHO, is that the DIGITAL DISPLAY OF RANGE takes big jumps down as one (starts particularly) to drive the car. BUT, the bar graph, actual charge state display, is quite orderly in how it operates.

Since Nissan opted to make the digital range display so LARGE, this is quite a powerful communication in "how fast" the car is discharging, while the bar graph of charge state behaves in a much more gradual and reasonable process.

Thus, IMHO, the emphasis for us, and for such test drivers, is to focus on the remaining charge bar graph and much less on the "miles range."

However, since I have and use BOTH the Leaf and the Volt, I can testify that the Volt has a significantly more accurate EV range estimate in it's digital display. We have over 3000 miles on our Volt and now over 1700 miles on our Leaf, and the Volt does a whoppingly better job of feedback on EV range. (It is absolutely NOT just the fact that Volt drivers don't have to worry about their EV range as suggested above).

Here is a link to an extended commentary by Consumer Reports that was just posted late yesterday adding some positive observations to their earlier negative comments on the "value of EVs right now."

http://news.consumerreports.org/cars/2011/04/a-tale-of-two-evs-california-man-shows-how-chevrolet-volt-nissan-leaf-can-pay-off-1.html

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

My two cents..

The article's content is a fair representation of the owner's experience.
CNN publishing something like this on the front page of their Money section is absurd and the real problem as it contributes to the FUD around the LEAF and electric vehicles.

i have no doubts that the writer did not lie. but what did he conveniently fail to mention?

it takes only a glance at the gauge to determine whether the car was charged to 100% or 80%. in an article that discusses the terror of running out of motive power, i find it more than a bit strange that the gauge indicating charge was never mentioned once

 

[tps]

What is an apparent "problem" with the Leaf, IMHO, is that the DIGITAL DISPLAY OF RANGE takes big jumps down as one (starts particularly) to drive the car. BUT, the bar graph, actual charge state display, is quite orderly in how it operates.

Since Nissan opted to make the digital range display so LARGE, this is quite a powerful communication in "how fast" the car is discharging, while the bar graph of charge state behaves in a much more gradual and reasonable process.

Thus, IMHO, the emphasis for us, and for such test drivers, is to focus on the remaining charge bar graph and much less on the "miles range."l

You definitely have a point. I certainly remember watching the digital range display, while I don't remember even paying attention to the bar graph at all.

 

[palmermd]

It seems that all the new EV drivers are now coming to the same conclusion that EVDriver 's of old have been saying all along. The car needs a good SOC meter for the operator to use to determine how far he can go. The calculated range estimate is a good idea as suplimental information, but SOC should be primary and a good operator can figure range quite easily.

 

[smkettner]

I don't have mine yet but I think the miles remaining and the SOC bars should be more closely corralated.

 

[Herm]

Here is a link to an extended commentary by Consumer Reports that was just posted late yesterday adding some positive observations to their earlier negative comments on the "value of EVs right now."

http://news.consumerreports.org/cars/2011/04/a-tale-of-two-evs-california-man-shows-how-chevrolet-volt-nissan-leaf-can-pay-off-1.html

Very nice article George.. thanks!

 

[malloryk]

but does it not seem obvious to anyone that he received the car on an 80% charge and not 100%?

that's what I'm thinking. I've never started out with mileage that low at a 100% charge, not even after my most lead-footy days.