Comparing the S to the SV - a few questions

[Klayfish]

Trying to decide if I'd rather have an S or an SV and looking to get input from owners of each. In the lease offer I've been given, there's a $40/month difference between them. The S I was offered has the Charge Package, and the SV has the LED and QC Port package.

I like the look of the SV dash better, it looks more high end. However, both cars still have automatic climate control. I'm not a nav system fanatic, and the car would be confined to local roads that I know anyway. So it would be more of a cosmetic thing than function.

How much more efficient is the HVAC system in the SV? Does it make a huge difference in range? I'm in PA, so winters can get in the teens (though normal is 30-40 degrees) and summers can get in the 90's.

I know the SV has 6 speakers, but is it the same stereo?

How much does the B mode add to the range? I know it depends on driving style, but just a ballpark?

How much do you SV owners use the CARWINGS function? What do you use it for most?

Guess what I'm trying to figure out is if there's enough of a functional difference between the cars to justify the $40/month extra for the SV? Like I said, I like the cosmetic look of the interior better, but if they're not all that different, I'd be just as happy with an S and keeping that money in my pocket...or spend it on my kids. :lol:

 

[cgaydos]

Trying to decide if I'd rather have an S or an SV and looking to get input from owners of each. In the lease offer I've been given, there's a $40/month difference between them. The S I was offered has the Charge Package, and the SV has the LED and QC Port package.

I like the look of the SV dash better, it looks more high end. However, both cars still have automatic climate control. I'm not a nav system fanatic, and the car would be confined to local roads that I know anyway. So it would be more of a cosmetic thing than function.

How much more efficient is the HVAC system in the SV? Does it make a huge difference in range? I'm in PA, so winters can get in the teens (though normal is 30-40 degrees) and summers can get in the 90's.

How much do you SV owners use the CARWINGS function? What do you use it for most?

I'm not driving a 2013 so can only comment on the features I have experience with.

1) Definitely recommend the 6.6kw charge package, which is on both cars you mentioned. There are LEAFers who get alone with just the 110V trickle charger, but most of us are using at least level 2 charging. If my charge times were cut to 60%, which is what the 6.6kw charger does, I'd have even more miles on the LEAFs and less on the ICEs.

2) I have the QC but have never used it because we don't have any QC stations in Colorado. From what I can tell almost all of those who live in areas with lots of QCs use the QC port at least occasionally. Therefore, I'd suggest this is you think there is, or will be, good QC availability in your area during the time you have the car.

3) We rarely use the Nav either. The Nav traffic was a nice toy for a while but frankly the Google Maps app on your smartphone has more current traffic info. I do like the screen, however, for all the other functions. Most of the time I have the energy use screen which helps optimize your driving.

4) Based on reports from 2013 owners there is a large consensus that the heat pump is a great improvement over the heater that is in the 2011/2012s and the S model. Except under extreme cold it cuts energy usage in half or less. However, because the 2013 came out in March we haven't had a lot of experience in severe cold weather yet. I can tell you that the heater is a REAL energy hog on cold days.

5) The best part of carwings is the ability to talk to your car remotely via smartphone app or the Nissan web site. You can get info on battery state and climate and charging status. You can get alerts when things change. You can start charging or climate control - and this includes kicking in the charger to go from 80% to 100%. Starting climate control is really nice when the car is plugged in as it means you can get the inside of the car temperate before you get there without draining battery. The charging start function is useful in all kinds of situations - for example when my car is at the airport parking I don't start the charge from 80% to 100% until I'm on the plane flight home and they are warning us to prepare to shut off our phones.

In addition with Carwings you have access to the Nissan web site with tons of charts and reports on your usage of the car. That's mostly a toy - though a few people on this forum have made in-depth use of those numbers for different kinds of analysis. But it's a fun toy.

 

[lion]

How much does the B mode add to the range? I know it depends on driving style, but just a ballpark?

It's hard to really put this in numbers as it depends on your driving style, road conditions, elevation etc, but keep in mind that you want to AVOID regeneration unless you have come to a complete stop. When driving in B mode, one needs to learn to use the accelerator pedal to adjust regeneration behavior in order to be as efficient as possible.

In an ICE car, hitting the brakes is like throwing gasoline out of the window. With a Hybrid or an electric car, you are still losing some energy, because regeneration doesn't recapture everything.

Coasting in 'neutral' (not by shifting to N, but by being at the point where you use 0 energy, but are capturing 0 energy) is something you need to get used to if efficiency is really important to you.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

You don't mention your range requirements. How far do you need it to go before recharging? Do you need public stations and are they available in your part of PA?

If worst case winter driving need is more than 40/50 miles, the SV's heat pump may well be worth the extra $40/mon.

 

[michapok]

One other thing to consider: The S with QC Pkg has a rearview monitor while the SV with only the LED+QC package has NO rearview monitor of any kind. I've got the SV with the premium package and the around view monitor that comes with it is pretty fantastic actually. Glad I shelled out the extra money for it. I didn't get the LED package since there are no QC within range of me and even if there were I didn't really see a need for ever using them.

Where in PA are you? You should update your profile to add your location.

 

[stjohnh]

We have both a 2013 S and SV, both about 2 mo old.

1. The nav system on-the SV is terrible. Way behind current good nav systems and poorly placed. Hard to see due to reflections and glare most of the days. We use Waze on our phones.

2. Yes get the charge package. I think QC comes w the faster 6.6 kw charger. You will appreciate the faster 240 charging no matter how you use the car.

3. One of the things I miss the most on my S is the cruise control.

4. Don't know about heater differences, hasn't been cold while we have had cars.

5. I'm not a music fan but my teenagers say the sound system is OK and not much different between the 2 cars.

6. B mode is mostly a driving style thing. If you are a normal driver you wont get much benefit. The hypermilers mostly don't use it either since regeneration recapture of kinetic energy is not as efficient as direct recapture from coasting up and down hills and good traffic planning.

7. While the look of the SV nav-audio-climate control system is more hi tech, we ALL (me, wife, 2 teens) vastly prefer the usability of the S system. Knobs are much easier to use than the buttons on the SV.

8. So far, carwings is useless. However, might be nice in cold weather to warm up car without having to go out to the garage. Definitely wont be paying $ for subscription when free period ends.

 

[Klayfish]

Thanks for the great feedback! I updated my profile. I'm in a tiny town in eastern PA, cow country. Closest "city" to me is Allentown (yes, Billy Joel song Allentown... :lol: ). My use for the car would be too/from work. It's 25 miles each way, almost all country road cruising. I literally cruise at 45-60mph for 17 straight miles on a mostly empty country road. Even the other 8 miles are light traffic and just a few traffic lights.

I'm not sure if there are QC stations near me, I'd have to look, but I doubt it.

Yeah, I'm not much of an audio geek. While I want my music to sound good, I'm not worried if it's not "symphony quality".

I'm sure there are lots of threads about the B mode and how to use it. I'll try to research, but in the interest of time, can someone give me a cliff notes version?

Sounds like the major difference is in the HVAC system. Wish I knew how much of a difference it makes from the old one to the new...

 

[Boourns]

I've got the SV with the premium package and the around view monitor that comes with it is pretty fantastic actually. Glad I shelled out the extra money for it.

I don't have a Leaf yet, but I can at least +1 this. My wife has a 2012 Rogue, and this alone might be worth $40 a month, especially if you parallel park regularly. It lets you park perfectly and quickly every time.

 

[stjohnh]

For the cliff notes version of B mode, see my note above. If you like "one pedal" driving (IE pushing accelerator down to go, mid-way to coast, and up for moderate braking) you will like B mode.

I was not aware how bad rear visibility of Leaf is until after we used it a while. I might consider paying for the backup camera knowing what I now know.

 

[Deleted member 9549]

Thanks for the great feedback! I updated my profile. I'm in a tiny town in eastern PA, cow country. Closest "city" to me is Allentown (yes, Billy Joel song Allentown... :lol: ). My use for the car would be too/from work. It's 25 miles each way, almost all country road cruising. I literally cruise at 45-60mph for 17 straight miles on a mostly empty country road. Even the other 8 miles are light traffic and just a few traffic lights.
...
I'm sure there are lots of threads about the B mode and how to use it. I'll try to research, but in the interest of time, can someone give me a cliff notes version?

Sounds like the major difference is in the HVAC system. Wish I knew how much of a difference it makes from the old one to the new...

B mode may be easiest for those who normally drive manual transmission. Its like taking your foot off the gas while in gear, it slows down the car which recovering energy. Its not a huge deal because the same regen occurs if you lightly press the brakes. But if you get used to it, B mode can allow single pedal driving. My wife is inconsistent with the gas and B mode drives her nuts so she uses D and the brakes. More efficient for her that way.

Carwings can be useful to monitor charge state if you're charging at public charge stations. It can also be nice to remotely turn on the AC before you get to the car.

Cruise control is only on the SV, not on the S.

You lose the rear view camera going to the SV. Note that the screen is smaller on the S than on the SV. If you like the idea of the camera be sure to try it and make sure you like it. Some have complained about the screen being too small.

The car should have plenty of range for your commute. The HVAC in the SV is a heat pump making it more efficient in the winter. That might have a big effect on range in the winter but folks don't know that well yet because the 2013 came out in the spring.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

A look at Plugshare shows not too many EVSE in Allentown or around East Greenville, so not much opportunity for even L2 public charging, and none for L3, but that's the norm on the East coast for now, maybe someday.

So, looks like most of your charging will be at home. But, can you charge at work? That would make all the difference in winter. Even if it's just a 120 plug. It would make the S more viable and save you the $40/month.

Even without work charging, the S should make 50 miles in winter if you pre-heat on the plug at home (L2) and conserve heat a bit. Toggling the heat off for a couple miles here and there, using the seat and steering wheel heaters, open the window a hair to save on defrost.

Go for a 2 year lease, the 2015's may all have heat pumps.

I could easily live without the Nav/Carwings, the car's timers are all you need.

Cruise control can add some range, but you already may be adept at simulating it manually.

What it comes down to may be how much that $40/month means to you. Having put 5 kids through college and only one left to go, I've had times when $40/month would mean a night out with an appreciative wife, and no kids! Priceless!

Don't forget how much you'll save on gas.

 

[michapok]

IMO the heat pump on the SV is not a concern for you. You have a fixed distance to travel every day, 50 miles.
When it's 35 degrees outside the SV will make that trip with lots of miles to spare while the S will make it with maybe 10-20 miles left. So, you now have more miles you can travel immediately after work without recharging if you went with the SV.
When it's 20 degrees outside both cars will make it with just a handful of miles remaining since the heat pump isn't doing much (that's my understanding, unless someone can correct). You will need to recharge either model once you get home before heading out again. So, I don't think there's a difference.
So, we're left with paying $40/month to lose a rear view monitor but gaining the ability to heat/cool the car at a moment's notice and cruise control. Since you can just set the S model to pre-heat in the morning at the same time every day I don't think this is a big deal either.
$40x36 = $1440. Go with the S and use the savings to go to Dorney (I love that place)

 

[GRA]

IMO the heat pump on the SV is not a concern for you. You have a fixed distance to travel every day, 50 miles.
When it's 35 degrees outside the SV will make that trip with lots of miles to spare while the S will make it with maybe 10-20 miles left. So, you now have more miles you can travel immediately after work without recharging if you went with the SV.
When it's 20 degrees outside both cars will make it with just a handful of miles remaining since the heat pump isn't doing much (that's my understanding, unless someone can correct). <snip>

See the chart in this link (bottom right corner of the graphic) for the efficiency of the heat pump versus the resistive heater:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=11348&start=4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[lion]

For what it's worth, I had the Base version of the Prius Plug-in (meaning no CarWings like service, crappy nav etc), and I made it just fine. The question is, are you going to use your car as a tool, or do you enjoy driving? My Prius was a tool because of the many options missing, but with my LEAF SL, I'm having a blast, and enjoying the heck out of all the options I picked.

If there is a chance you will use the car for more than just commuting, then get the better options IMO.

 

[planet4ever]

The thing I miss most on the S is cruise control. I complain a lot about the rear view monitor on the S compared to my previous SL, but even a bad monitor is better than none at all. Like stjohnh, I much prefer the audio and climate control interface for the S. It has real knobs I can spin for volume and channel; real knobs I can spin for temperature and fan speed.

I've never had a chance to use "B" mode, since it didn't exist before 2013, but ECO does provide a fair amount of regen, and light pressure on the brake pedal increases that, probably as much as B would. The only times you need heavy regen are coming to a stop and a long downhill stretch. When coming to a stop you are going to move your foot to the brake sooner or later anyway, so it doesn't matter much which pedal you are using for the extra regen. B mode would be quite nice for long descents on curvy roads, and would probably lead to better control of the car.

One thing no one has pointed out is that there are major differences in the timers. The S has only one charging timer, not two, and it applies to all days of the week, without even a separate setting for weekends. It is only an end timer (the car calculates start time based on battery level) and there is no 80% option on the timer. There is a separate 80% option, but a practical effect is that you can't override the 80% charge by pressing the timer override button. In our moderate climate I never use the climate control timer, but it does appear to have on and off times. Again, though, there is one timer that applies every day of the week. And a final point about the timers: Since there is no center console, the timers are controlled by the "trip computer". This means all settings have to be made using two buttons, "Next" and "Enter". This is an awkward and sometimes laborious process. (People who have set the dashboard clock on 2011-2012 models know what I'm talking about.)

Ray

 

[cwerdna]

^^
Re: the stereo in the S, I parked next a Nissan Rogue last weekend and peeked in side. The stereo looked identical/almost identical to that of the Leaf S trim. Didn't realize that it was a shared stereo between multiple Nissan models...

 

[Rauv]

I would recommend the SV with heat pump HVAC and 6.6kw charger. You will really appreciate the instant heat from the heat pump and better range in mildly cold PA days. You will be white knuckling it on cold snowy days, regardless, if you do have 50 mile RT commute. My worst mileage last winter in MN with cold (15F) snowy/salt covered sloppy roads was 36 miles (resistance heater ON continuously). That is a worst case scenario, and of course your mileage will vary.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

And, how hilly is your terrain? You'll lose more range climbing than you'll get back going down, so a hilly 50 miles is worse than a flat 50 miles.

So, maybe the SV in that case? It has the darker cloth seats too, won't get as dirty with kids.

 

[Klayfish]

The question is, are you going to use your car as a tool, or do you enjoy driving? If there is a chance you will use the car for more than just commuting, then get the better options IMO.

That's exactly the center point of my decision process. Strictly speaking, the car is a tool to get too/from work in an efficient and reliable way. That said, I'm a total car nut. I race them, have owned tons of them, even work in the auto insurance claims business (please, no tomato throwing... ). I've been driving beaters for the better part of 15 years. At first, it was because I spent my money on really wild weekend only toys. But since my wife and I started having kids (now have 3), the budget for toys went away and I drove beaters to save money...well, I do have an old Miata now, so that's my "toy". The idea now is to get me a new car that while not as cheap as running a beater, doesn't break the bank. My criteria is reliable, fuel efficient, unique/interesting/fun. The Leaf fits all those criteria perfectly. And after test driving it, I was pleasantly surprised with how it felt. I have always had cars with knobs and buttons and like others have mentioned, very much like that tactile feel. So the S strongly appeals that way. On the other hand, the SV user interface just looks cool and appeals to my sense of "if I'm getting a new car, why not go for it?" I think I'm one of those people that wouldn't miss the extras the SV has (in fact I may like the knobs in the S better), but if I had them I'd probably take advantage of them. I know...I'm arguing both sides of the coin, but that's the debate for me. I can go either way.

The heater is a whole different story. I typically don't blast my heater, even in the dead of winter. My current beater, an '01 Saab 9-5 wagon, has auto climate control. On the coldest days of winter, I set the thermostat at 68 or 70 and am plenty toasty. I don't use it's seat heaters, I've never been a big fan of them, but I guess I can get used to them. I just don't want to be stranded with a dead battery.

The terrain near me is mostly flat. The end of my road has a nice hill, but it's 1/4 mile long. Beyond that, it's almost all flat, just some very slight inclines/declines. The Leaf wouldn't be my only mode of transportion. It would definitely be my primary, but I have back up. We have a minivan that serves just as the family truckster (my wife has a daily driver car), so I could use it for longer trips or really super cold days. It's also a beast in snow, so I'd drive it the 5 or 6 days of the year we get snow.

 

[Reddy]

Klay, I think you've answered your own questions. Go with either and switch to one of your beater ICE's on that week of really nasty snowy, cold days. You should be able to do 50 mi RT easily this winter, and maybe even the next. Last winter I did 80 mi to turtle at around 30 F, but without heat. I don't recommend it for daily driving, but just to let you know it's possible to go farther if you get in a pinch. I've done several hilly 65 mi RT at 20-40 F and had no real problems, using sporadic heat as needed. I don't have heated seats or the more efficient heater.

The good news is that you can pre-warm your car for the morning commute on "shore power" and won't use much battery energy to heat. The converse is that the return trip requires battery power to pre-heat a very cold car. Still, unless there is snow on the roads, 50 mi RT is still easily doable, especially if you have 17 mi of empty, flat road and can choose your speed. Eventually, you'll get very good at estimating just how much heat you can turn on and still get home without exceeding VLBW.

I went with the high end model and love the back up camera, auto lights, cruise control, etc. I wouldn't get the S just because of the cruise. I use it to keep from speeding in this nice quiet EV.