Consumer Reports used cars to avoid: 2013 LEAF

[like2bike]

I don't know what they are talking about. My 2013 LEAF S has been great. Problems I've experienced:

AC lost charge in first year, took two tries for the dealer to fix. No further problems.
Drive train backlash noise. Service campaign fix didn't last. Noise still noticeable when moving from a stop with windows open. Minor annoyance only.
Brake modulation got a little scary before software fix. Resonantly noticed it still may not be perfect. Minor annoyance only though.

Please relate other experiences with the 2013.

 

[cwerdna]

The problem spots for the '13 noted in CR were climate system (much worse than average dot), brakes (looks to be average dot). Drive system and audio system weren't bad, but they were a notch under the best possible dot.

As I posted elsewhere, http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2012/04/reliability-histories/index.htm?userWantsFull=true has the average problem rate for a 12 month period for each of the years. (Well for '15 it's shorter.) So, the '13 Leaf clearly had much more than 1% have problems w/the climate system in the 12 month period. We don't know what the % is though.

I wouldn't be surprised if your AC refrigerant loss was due to a crack in the pipe as noted by this TSB: http://x.nissanhelp.com/forums/local_links.php?s=&catid=783&filter=&sort=d&page=1&pp=10&keyid=28. FWIW, NegativeCarbon reported the exact issue below on his late-2013 '13 S, as well.

NTB14-045a
-REVISED-
2013-2014 NISSAN LEAF®; A/C NOT COOLING
There is not any cold air coming from the air conditioning (A/C) System.
And
There is evidence of a refrigerant leak at the A/C Joint between the Condenser and A/C
pipes/hoses.
And
The leak is due to a small crack at the “end form” of the A/C pipe.

It is too bad my owned '13 Leaf still has the old part with the bracket. I worry it'll fail outside the 3 year/36K warranty, leaving me to foot the bill. Perhaps attaching the bracket to whatever it's attached to is what causes the crack.

 

[LeftieBiker]

It is too bad my owned '13 Leaf still has the old part with the bracket. I worry it'll fail outside the 3 year/36K warranty, leaving me to foot the bill. Perhaps attaching the bracket to whatever it's attached to is what causes the crack.

Someone here quoted an estimate of $160 to replace the old hose/bracket with the redesigned version. If I were going to buy my leaf, I'd spring for that before the warranty ended.

I think that the high failure rate of the PTC heaters on the S models, combined with the hose failures, make up most of the issues with the 2013. My hatch latch has never been perfectly adjusted, even after a dealer readjusted it, but aside from that and the poorly written accessory battery charging algorithm, no real issues. Between spending so little on the lease payments and having almost zero maintenance costs, I've done well, so far.

 

[cwerdna]

It is too bad my owned '13 Leaf still has the old part with the bracket. I worry it'll fail outside the 3 year/36K warranty, leaving me to foot the bill. Perhaps attaching the bracket to whatever it's attached to is what causes the crack.

Someone here quoted an estimate of $160 to replace the old hose/bracket with the redesigned version. If I were going to buy my leaf, I'd spring for that before the warranty ended.

Hmm, if a dealer could do it for $160 for me, and that meant either recharging or preserving the refrigerant in the system, I might spring for that. I should check how much it'd cost to fix it afterward, if the refrigerant all leaked out (i.e. following what's in the TSB).

 

[LeftieBiker]

Hmm, if a dealer could do it for $160 for me, and that meant either recharging or preserving the refrigerant in the system, I might spring for that. I should check how much it'd cost to fix it afterward, if the refrigerant all leaked out (i.e. following what's in the TSB).

As I understand it, running the A/C compressor at all after a hose failure will ruin it. There should be safeguards to prevent that, but I'm pretty sure I've read reports of the compressor having to be replaced after the hose failed, so...

 

[user 10599]

Bummer to hear that. I've been very happy with my 2013 Leaf. Only problem we've had was an intermittent short or something wrong in the battery system that would cause it to go from full charge to turtle very quickly. Took a couple trips to the dealer and cell phone pics of the dash showing lots of charge, then 2 minutes later showing it at turtle for them to do a serious diagnosis. Once they found the problem, it took about 2 weeks for them to get the battery parts and get it fixed. Fortunately the entire repair was covered by warranty. I'm guessing CR would score that issue rather severely.

Other than that, it has been perfect.

 

[Levenkay]

Bummer to hear that. I've been very happy with my 2013 Leaf. Only problem we've had was an intermittent short or something wrong in the battery system that would cause it to go from full charge to turtle very quickly. Took a couple trips to the dealer and cell phone pics of the dash showing lots of charge, then 2 minutes later showing it at turtle for them to do a serious diagnosis. Once they found the problem, it took about 2 weeks for them to get the battery parts and get it fixed. Fortunately the entire repair was covered by warranty. I'm guessing CR would score that issue rather severely.

Other than that, it has been perfect.

For this to really happen would involve *something* dissipating 20-ish kWh in 1/30th of an hour. That's 600kW, boys and girls. What exploded?

It *has* to be an instrumentation problem.

 

[LeftieBiker]

It could also be that the BMS was over-reporting the state of charge...

 

[cwerdna]

It could also be that the BMS was over-reporting the state of charge...

I recall there was one guy here who had some loose connection (bolt?) inside the pack that would result in intermittent connectivity and thus bizarre problems. I wish I could find the post.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=271027#p271027 says he had a bad cell.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Those kinds of problems seem like they should be covered under the 8 year/ 100k battery part of the warranty. One concern I have is getting a service department to recognize the difference in those later years. (I'm sorry, there's nothing wrong with your battery, it just has zero capacity remaining, and capacity isn't covered beyond 5 years)

 

[GTLeafMem]

Bummer to hear that. I've been very happy with my 2013 Leaf. Only problem we've had was an intermittent short or something wrong in the battery system that would cause it to go from full charge to turtle very quickly. Took a couple trips to the dealer and cell phone pics of the dash showing lots of charge, then 2 minutes later showing it at turtle for them to do a serious diagnosis. Once they found the problem, it took about 2 weeks for them to get the battery parts and get it fixed. Fortunately the entire repair was covered by warranty. I'm guessing CR would score that issue rather severely.

Other than that, it has been perfect.

For this to really happen would involve *something* dissipating 20-ish kWh in 1/30th of an hour. That's 600kW, boys and girls. What exploded?

It *has* to be an instrumentation problem.

Sounds like a bad cell pair.

 

[jjeff]

I don't know what they are talking about. My 2013 LEAF S has been great. Problems I've experienced:

AC lost charge in first year, took two tries for the dealer to fix. No further problems.
Drive train backlash noise. Service campaign fix didn't last. Noise still noticeable when moving from a stop with windows open. Minor annoyance only.
Brake modulation got a little scary before software fix. Resonantly noticed it still may not be perfect. Minor annoyance only though.

Please relate other experiences with the 2013.

I also think that report is mostly hogwash, I've been very happy with my '13S.
Issues I've had, and basically all are minor:

1. Charge port hatch not opening after a couple days old, dealer adjusted OK now.
2. Rear hatch requiring a slam to latch in cold weather, dealer adjusted first time, second time replaced struts and latching mechanism. Still requires what I consider a slight slam in very cold weather but probably mostly due to stiff rubber seals on the hatch, I'm OK with it.
3. Extreme outside front tire wear, <15K miles and the outside edges of both tires were bald, center and inside just fine. This I wasn't too happy about but since by the time I reported it, it was 13 months I had to pay out of pocket for a alignment and tire rotation, it's been almost 10K and the front tires still look good, IMO it must have been a factory alignment issue since I know I didn't hit any large pot holes or curbs and got car with <50 miles new.

Truthfully with my new purchased(in '05) Toyota Scion Xb(and wifes '07 Toyota Prius) we didn't have any issues in the first 5 years+ but IMO most of the Leaf issues were minor so I don't feel too bad.

 

[user 10599]

I'm sure it was more of an issue that the battery connectivity dropped, thereby it suddenly had no power. That battery would have had power, but the car couldn't access it.

The repair involved replacing 2 cells and several other battery related parts.

 

[danwat1234]

I don't understand why Consumer Reports thinks that the '11 Leaf has problems with the drive system, electrical system and climate system. The '12 Leaf has no bad marks and the '13 has a bad mark in the climate system (CR page screenshot http://imgur.com/0PTbd96) . The 2011-2012 Leafs has a design problem with the climate system, in which there is no way to shut off the heater if it is colder than 60 F in the car, because, that is how low the automatic climate system goes. If it's colder, the resistive heater will still come on even if you just want the fan. There are ways around it, including modification to the circuit board behind the control panel, or pulling out the heater fuse. But why doesn't the '12 have this on CR, but the '13 does too? Makes me think CR didn't even know about this problem.

Anybody have details on what they found wrong with the '11 and '13 and why the '12 is the magic year to buy a used Leaf?

'14 Body integrity, I don't want to know about that.
I know some 2013-2015 Leafs have the brake recall.

 

[garsh]

Anybody have details on what they found wrong with the '11 and '13 and why the '12 is the magic year to buy a used Leaf?

Well, 2011 was the first year, so they probably got many of the bugs worked out for 2012. But 2013 was the first year that Leafs were made in USA instead of Japan, in addition to changing some large components like the heating system & braking capacitor placement. So that probably introduced growing pains again.

 

[danwat1234]

I wonder if Consumer Reports has written anything about why they think the '11 and '13 are bad years for the Leaf, what happened in their vehicles to have them come to that conclusion.

 

[cwerdna]

I don't know what they are talking about. My 2013 LEAF S has been great. Problems I've experienced:

AC lost charge in first year, took two tries for the dealer to fix. No further problems.
Drive train backlash noise. Service campaign fix didn't last. Noise still noticeable when moving from a stop with windows open. Minor annoyance only.
Brake modulation got a little scary before software fix. Resonantly noticed it still may not be perfect. Minor annoyance only though.

Please relate other experiences with the 2013.

I also think that report is mostly hogwash, I've been very happy with my '13S.
Issues I've had, and basically all are minor:
....

You guys are each sample sizes of one.

From http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2011/10/consumer-reports-car-reliability-faq/index.htm

Your survey results do not match with my experience. Is your survey wrong?

The CR reliability information reflects the problem rate, or percentage of cars that experienced problems, across at least about 100 car owners. Even in the most unreliable models, some individual car owners are lucky and experience few or no problems during the 12 months covered by the survey. For example, in one of the worst models in our recent surveys, about 75 percent of the owners reported problems in at least one trouble area over the previous 12 months; of course, this means that about 25 percent of owners reported no problems. Your neighbor or friend might be one of those lucky owners. Of course, the opposite can happen as well—even in a model that tends to be quite reliable, there is an occasional "lemon."

From http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2012/04/reliability-histories/index.htm, the AVERAGE problem rate for climate system for a '13 over the 12-month period in which the survey was conducted was 1%! The '13 Leaf got dinged very badly on that w/a solid black dot, so it was much worse than average (much worse than 1% of vehicle), we don't know how much. like2bike obviously hit that and there's a TSB on the pipe/connection.

I posted about this in post #2.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I wonder if Consumer Reports has written anything about why they think the '11 and '13 are bad years for the Leaf, what happened in their vehicles to have them come to that conclusion.

They base most of their ratings on reports by consumers (hint!) that rate components and categories, IIRC.

 

[cwerdna]

I wonder if Consumer Reports has written anything about why they think the '11 and '13 are bad years for the Leaf, what happened in their vehicles to have them come to that conclusion.

I already answered about the '13 in post #2.

For the '11, it has an average predicted reliability rating now. I don't think that's a "bad" year.

The problem spots are drive system, electrical system, and climate system. I'm not sure what's up w/drive system, but I could easily see people blaming battery degradation or the wonky behavior (can't got into ready mode, T/M error (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=12959 and http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=16114)) when the 12 volt's dead. An '11 will likely have needed a 12 volt replacement by the time the survey was taken. And, there are no telltale signs of a 12 volt dying (e.g. starter slow to crank or not able turn over the engine).

I could see a decent % of people having heater failures + an AC problems making that area look bad. Per http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2012/04/reliability-histories/index.htm, the average prob rate for climate system in the 12 month period for an '11 is 2%.

 

[taloyd]

FWIW, and it's obviously a sample size of one - BOTH the heater AND the A/C in the car (which are mostly the same, since the 2013 used a heat pump which essentially swaps the compressor and the condenser to produce heat) didn't work when I bought the car new. After servicing the A/C it worked, but after servicing the heater once - it still doesn't. Dropping it off this weekend to get the heater finally fixed (I hope), more than 2 years in (took me a year to notice the A/C, and more to notice the heater - I don't use either much, clearly).

Haven't heard of all 2 functions of a climate control system not working as purchased, but stranger things have happened, and I wouldn't hesitate to buy the car again given 20/20 hindsight.

Best,
Tal