Consumer Reports: Volt 'doesn't really make a lot of sense

[LakeLeaf]

Consumer Reports: GM's Volt 'doesn't really make a lot of sense'

Consumer Reports offered a harsh initial review of the Chevrolet Volt, questioning whether General Motors Co.'s flagship vehicle makes economic "sense."The extended-range plug-in electric vehicle is on the cover of the April issue — the influential magazine's annual survey of vehicles — but the GM vehicle comes in for criticism.

"When you are looking at purely dollars and cents, it doesn't really make a lot of sense. The Volt isn't particularly efficient as an electric vehicle and it's not particularly good as a gas vehicle either in terms of fuel economy," said David Champion, the senior director of Consumer Reports auto testing center at a meeting with reporters here. "This is going to be a tough sell to the average consumer."

....

The magazine has put about 2,500 miles on its Volt. It paid $48,700, including a $5,000 markup by a Chevy dealer.

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Ouch!

 

[DaveEV]

To be fair to the Volt - No new car makes financial sense. Not the Leaf, either. You're better off buying a new $10k Versa in that case.

If cost is the primary consideration when choosing a vehicle to drive, you should be driving a 15 year old Geo Metro.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

If cost is the primary consideration when choosing a vehicle to drive, you should be driving a 15 year old Geo Metro.

Or taking the bus!

For my kids, who are responsible drivers and had no accidents or tickets, the insurance is nearly the same as the payments on a new economy car. A car is a loser no matter how you slice it.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

to be fair; there is still a level of economics, TCO, etc and maybe no new car "passes" in someones book, but there is a degree of afford-ability as related to the utilization of the device or vehicle and the balance sheet on the Volt is much more lopsided than the balance sheet on a Leaf

 

[AndyH]

Exactly. A car is a liability that will always cost money to operate. The best we can do is find ways to reduce the bleeding. This is different for a business that can use the vehicle to provide cash flow - then the vehicle becomes an asset and one can calculate a return on the investment.

That being said, my gut agrees completely with CR in this case - the Volt isn't a particularly good ICE or hybrid or EV. I'm certainly happy that a US automaker FINALLY made a real hybrid - and I'm very happy that a US automaker has a PHEV! But when one can get a battery and software upgrade for their Prius from a number of vendors and get significantly better performance for much less cash, the Volt is still behind the curve.

http://www.hymotion.com/
http://www.enginer.us/
http://www.pluginsupply.com/
http://www.pluginconversions.com/index.html
http://www.autobeyours.com/HighSpeedStealth.htm

 

[SanDust]

That being said, my gut agrees completely with CR in this case - the Volt isn't a particularly good ICE or hybrid or EV. I'm certainly happy that a US automaker FINALLY made a real hybrid - and I'm very happy that a US automaker has a PHEV! But when one can get a battery and software upgrade for their Prius from a number of vendors and get significantly better performance for much less cash, the Volt is still behind the curve.

The technical guys at CalCars, you know, the guys who pioneered the plug-in Prius conversions, have a very different opinion. Ron Gremban the Lead Tech puts it as follows:

For most driving regimes, Prius conversions and even Toyota's plug-in Prius are capable of far less gasoline displacement than the Volt. This is due not only to usually smaller battery capacity, but also for two reasons directly attributable to the plug-in Prius' blended mode that requires ICE power for full acceleration:

Since your opinions are completely opposite, either you or the CalCars guys have to be wrong. Not saying which one but apparently Felix Kramer, Ron Gremban, and Andy Frank -- you know the guy considered to be the father of plug in hybrids -- have their reasons for turning in their plug-in Prius and getting Volts.

 

[DaveEV]

IMO, there's two issues with the Volt that keep me from seriously looking at it:

1. Price. I don't want to spend more than $25k for a car.
2. Charge sustaining mode fuel economy - 37 mpg is about 15-20% too low - I'd really expect it to be somewhere in the mid 40s mpg.

I suspect that these issues will be addressed at least to some degree in the next generation Volt. If not - the PHEV Prius appears to be likely to address them.

 

[AndyH]

The technical guys at CalCars, you know, the guys who pioneered the plug-in Prius conversions, have a very different opinion. Ron Gremban the Lead Tech puts it as follows:

For most driving regimes, Prius conversions and even Toyota's plug-in Prius are capable of far less gasoline displacement than the Volt. This is due not only to usually smaller battery capacity, but also for two reasons directly attributable to the plug-in Prius' blended mode that requires ICE power for full acceleration:

Since your opinions are completely opposite, either you or the CalCars guys have to be wrong. Not saying which one but apparently Felix Kramer, Ron Gremban, and Andy Frank -- you know the guy considered to be the father of plug in hybrids -- have their reasons for turning in their plug-in Prius and getting Volts.

I love you too, dear. Thankfully the real world gives me more choices than your black and white world apparently gives you.

It's clear that Mr. Gremban has his blinders on. CalCars may have pioneered the Prius pack, but other companies have taken the ball and run with it. Plug In Supply has a 10kWh pack that gives 50 miles of EV range at up to 72mph, or 100 miles of 100+MPG in blended mode.

What else can they do? If one wants to buy a PHEV with a warranty out of a dealership they have exactly one choice. It's probably much easier for them to write a check for a Volt than for a battery from Plug In Supply, anyway. :lol:

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Cal Cars original options would not have worked. range limited, wrong batts, etc. but that was 6 years ago. they did pioneer the thought process, got the ball rolling and provided a lot of the initial data legwork that saved other innovators a lot of money and time who were then able to make products that do work.

the engineer (sp) system is a perfect case in point. it started with a 2-8 kwh package that well...had a few hiccups. but after time and upgrades to the controllers and balancers they now have a pack that easily out does the Volts EV range and when combined with the cost of a lightly used Prius is 10,000 cheaper even after Volt incentives not to mention 10+ mpg better performance in gas only mode!

that is just one, there are now choices and no doubt many more to come. as gas goes up, the plug in market will have much higher demand and more options will happen

the Volt still has a huge market. aftermarket products, especially ones as complicated, unknown and largely untrusted as battery pack conversions are simply not for the faint-hearted. many would rather pay the extra money and store only one tech support # in their phone. the Volt would be the perfect option for them especially if their commute is less than 30 miles a day

 

[evnow]

I think a Volt like PHEV, even at $40K will have a good market in a different form factor. A CUV/Van would make it a lot more appealing - and people already spend over $30K for such vehicles.

That is why I'm looking forward to Ford Energi.

 

[edatoakrun]

I think the Volt makes sense, but to a relatively small demographic:

Those with reasons to only own one vehicle (parking, ownership costs) who do most of their driving within a short range of their home-charge locations, will mostly get by on Electricity.

But the plug-in hybrid market will shrink, when and if the public charging infrastructure develops. At some point, many of these buyers will no longer like the high costs of having a "security engine" in their vehicle.

 

[walterbays]

I think the Volt makes sense, but to a relatively small demographic:

I agree. I'd add one item to your excellent list. That is that Volt buyers should tend towards households without a second conventional car available for long trips. (Single car households, or those where both cars have long or unpredictable commutes.)

I really hope the Volt sells very well. As you mention, EV's will become preferable to PHEV's as the public charging infrastructure is built. And Volt is the best car to drive at the fringes of a viable charging infrastructure and provide the motivation to extend that infrastructure - thus making EV's practical in those locations.

 

[edatoakrun]

I think the Volt makes sense, but to a relatively small demographic:

I agree. I'd add one item to your excellent list. That is that Volt buyers should tend towards households without a second conventional car available for long trips. (Single car households, or those where both cars have long or unpredictable commutes.)

I really hope the Volt sells very well. As you mention, EV's will become preferable to PHEV's as the public charging infrastructure is built. And Volt is the best car to drive at the fringes of a viable charging infrastructure and provide the motivation to extend that infrastructure - thus making EV's practical in those locations.

EXCEPT-

That the Ford, GM, and other mfrs of cars that cannot utilise DC quick charging, seem to be discouraging the infrastructure development for more capable EV's.

 

[TomT]

If they had simply equipped it with a larger capacity battery pack, say 24Kw, at the same price point and near the same weight, I think a lot of the criticism of it would never have appeared.

I think the Volt makes sense, but to a relatively small demographic:

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

oh there is a market for the Volt and its a niche but still good for several thousand sales. as gas prices go up, so will the market for the Volt. i predict they can still sell a few hundred thou over the next few years if gas stays north of $4

 

[edatoakrun]

If they had simply equipped it with a larger capacity battery pack, say 24Kw, at the same price point, I think a lot of the criticism of it would never have appeared.

I think the Volt makes sense, but to a relatively small demographic:

Then you'd probably have a larger vehicle that weighed 4200-4400 lbs that only got 30-34 mpg on gas-and still carried only four passengers.

Same price? Anyone think GM is making money at the currant $40k+?

 

[TomT]

No more so than Nissan is making money at the current U.S. Leaf price...

Same price? Anyone think GM is making money at the currant $40k+?

 

[TRONZ]

I have said it once... I have said it a thousand times. The current Volt will be gone in two years. GM will blame everyone else but themselves for it's failure. GM seems to have a special hatred for the EV crowd so don't be surprised if they try to pin it all on us... and then rush back to their old business model. :roll:

Mark my words! What we will see from GM over the next 24 months will be "Who Killed the Electric Car 2.0". Just like before, GM execs are still heavily invested in oil and business is business. This is no different than the execs of IBM owning shares of Microsoft.

 

[edatoakrun]

No more so than Nissan is making money at the current U.S. Leaf price...

Same price? Anyone think GM is making money at the currant $40k+?

Well, Nissan sure as hell isn't making any money selling sixty-odd cars a month, built by the highest paid labor in the world.

IF they can sell 15,000-20,000 LEAFs a month by 2013, assembled in Kentucky, they just might turn a small profit, at current list.

But there's more than one way to make a nickel...

I think there's a lot more room in the market for future LEAF price increases, than for the VOLT. You guys waiting for a faster LEAF L2 charger or nicer interior fabric, may have to pay for it, in the "improved" 2012 or 2013 year models. And the Nissan strategy is probably to really cut costs (think battery) and pull the cash in, on the second generation, 2015 or 2016 model year LEAF.

 

[DaveEV]

If they had simply equipped it with a larger capacity battery pack, say 24Kw, at the same price point and near the same weight, I think a lot of the criticism of it would never have appeared.

Turn that 16 kWh pack into a 24 kWh pack and now you've got a $50k+ Volt. No way. You think the demographic that fits the Volt is small now - it will be tiny by then. At that point you might as well bump up the pack to 30 kWh total and ditch the range extender completely. And then you've got a Leaf.

Multiple studies have shown that optimal PHEV battery size will provide EV range between 12-40 miles depending on how it's driven. Not surprisingly, the Prius PHEV and Volt are at the extremes of that range.