Discuss data from the LEAF Battery app, and Comparisons

[kolmstead]

Congratulations, Evoforce! I'm hating your numbers. My Ahr was 42.27 Tuesday, but 42.29 Wednesday and 42.33 yesterday. This is not progress! And a far cry from 41.79.

-Karl

 

[Evoforce]

Congratulations, Evoforce! I'm hating your numbers. My Ahr was 42.27 Tuesday, but 42.29 Wednesday and 42.33 yesterday. This is not progress! And a far cry from 41.79.

-Karl

Thanks for cheering about me being a big loser! I appreciate that! I kept wondering why mine had to be soo low compared to others. Good luck on getting there. Hope you have time!

 

[kolmstead]

My Leaf battery got down to 42.27 Ahr back on 11/23, but capacity has been rising slowly since then. It spent close to two weeks between 42.33 and 42.35 and has been between 42.38 and 42.40 for the past week. A run up the mountain to heat the battery up to 81 degrees had no effect whatsoever, nor did a run to turtle two weeks ago. Last night I ran it to turtle again, with no change in readings. End of drive battery temps are falling; 60 to 70 degrees is normal now.

Tonight, however, the reading jumped up quite a bit. I drove straight home and hit LBW in my driveway. The capacity read 42.52 Ahr, which is a jump of 0.14 in just one day. Could this be a hopeful sign? It's the only instability I've observed in several months.

Interesting to see that mwalsh's Ahr readings are continuing to drop; he's down to almost 42.0 now. Wondering why his kept falling and mine froze almost a month ago!

-Karl

 

[GerryAZ]

Keep driving Karl--you have a few more days left to win the battery lottery.

Gerry

 

[mwalsh]

Interesting to see that mwalsh's Ahr readings are continuing to drop; he's down to almost 42.0 now. Wondering why his kept falling and mine froze almost a month ago!

-Karl

Look at my numbers from between 10/10/15 and 10/20/15 (when I eventually lost the bar) - they barely moved, and sometimes when they moved they actually went up. To go back a little further, my numbers didn't move much between September 28th and when I lost the bar. You may remember me whining about a "sticky plateau" during that time? I have a feeling you're on this same "sticky plateau" and you have to be real close to breaking past it.

 

[kolmstead]

What kind of battery temps have you been seeing, Mike? Mine have been dropping five to ten degrees per week. Finished up last night at about 56 degrees. But even when they were in the low 80s, Ahr was static or increasing slowly.

I'm just amazed that you have lost another 0.3 Ahr despite cool weather. Any updates on when your new battery will be installed?

-Karl

 

[TimLee]

... nor did a run to turtle two weeks ago. Last night I ran it to turtle again, with no change in readings. ...

You might try going to pack disconnect in garage and leave it without charging for a long while.

On one occasion I saw a 2% SOH drop when forgot to charge for a day. Was maybe 0.3 AHr drop.
But battery temps were near 80F.

As a side note, it is interesting that following pack disconnect and not charging, the LSP Remaining kWh actually rises.
Pack disconnect on mine is usually at 0.3.
It will then usually drop to 0.2.
But check again later and Remaining kWh is usually 0.5.
Must be something to do with further cell balancing after pack disconnect or inaccuracies in BMS estimation of kWh.

 

[mwalsh]

What kind of battery temps have you been seeing, Mike? Mine have been dropping five to ten degrees per week. Finished up last night at about 56 degrees. But even when they were in the low 80s, Ahr was static or increasing slowly.

I'm just amazed that you have lost another 0.3 Ahr despite cool weather. Any updates on when your new battery will be installed?

-Karl

I haven't been watching battery temps, Karl, but I have been watching temp bars - I start the day at 4 bars on the cooler days and, with hard driving to and from school, have been able to raise pack temps so I'm into 5 bars pretty readily. That said, during the warm spell we had a couple of weeks ago I saw 6 bars on the hottest day.

My gut still tells me that you're real close. My advice would be to drive a lot, even when you've no place you really have to be, and drive hard. VERY HARD. VERY, VERY HARD!

No word on the new pack this week. I'm going to call on Monday and see if there is any kind of update.

 

[Turbo3]

What kind of battery temps have you been seeing, Mike? Mine have been dropping five to ten degrees per week. Finished up last night at about 56 degrees. But even when they were in the low 80s, Ahr was static or increasing slowly.

I'm just amazed that you have lost another 0.3 Ahr despite cool weather. Any updates on when your new battery will be installed?

-Karl

I haven't been watching battery temps, Karl, but I have been watching temp bars - I start the day at 4 bars on the cooler days and, with hard driving to and from school, have been able to raise pack temps so I'm into 5 bars pretty readily. That said, during the warm spell we had a couple of weeks ago I saw 6 bars on the hottest day.

My gut still tells me that you're real close. My advice would be to drive a lot, even when you've no place you really have to be, and drive hard. VERY HARD. VERY, VERY HARD!

No word on the new pack this week. I'm going to call on Monday and see if there is any kind of update.

What is your 100% full charge Gid number on your pack to be replaced?

 

[mwalsh]

What is your 100% full charge Gid number on your pack to be replaced?

Still 177 Gids.

The one thing I've always found weird about my pack is that Gids have sort of been stationary (or nearly stationary) until the weren't. I was at around 184 Gids for the longest time. Then all of a sudden I was at like 181, and now I'm at 177. The next time I notice they've dropped I'll probably be at something like 173.

I guess what I'm saying is they don't track with AHr losses. That might be normal...or not, I don't know.

 

[kolmstead]

Tim, I'll give it a try. I agree with your observations re GIDs and kWh after sitting at low battery. And the pack always rebalances pretty well.

Thanks for the support, guys!

- Karl

 

[kolmstead]

A few months ago I posted my theory that as the Leaf battery temperature goes down, the capacity bar loss algorithm gets inhibited, because all batteries lose capacity when they are cold, and we'd all be seeing bar losses each winter if Nissan hadn't done something to prevent that.

Someone responded that what Nissan probably did was use a theoretical model of battery capacity which took into account battery temperature and generated an artificial capacity number... what the battery capacity was at some ideal temperature. So in the winter time, the capacity number gets adjusted upward to what it would be at, say, 70 degrees F. instead of what it is really is at 30 degrees. Makes sense to me, but I think the model over-corrects by quite a bit.

My battery temperature at the end of the day has been steadily dropping. It was in the upper seventies towards the end of November, mid sixties the first week of December, and got down into the mid fifties a few days ago. During that time, my Ahr reading has climbed from around 42.27 all the way up to 42.52 six days ago.

Last night we had a very warm wind which warmed the battery up considerably (5 temp bars) so I used what little extra battery I had after work today to run the car down well below VLBW. Ending battery temperature was 78 degrees F. Sure enough, my Ahr reading was back down to 42.37, the lowest it's been for two weeks.

What's this all mean? Probably that the only way I'm going to qualify for the battery capacity warranty, which expires in three weeks, is to keep my car warm and hope that the capacity algorithm will allow ninth bar to extinguish. I'm almost positive that will not happen if the car stays cold. Note that I'm not talking about abusive heat; 80 degrees would probably be enough. Just enough to get rid of the cold battery capacity adjustment.

Can't do it just by driving. I'm working, so the car only goes 18 miles to work (through very cold air), then sits outside all day and goes 18 miles home while sun is setting. Not enough battery left by then (already below LBW) to do much additional driving. So the battery is cold, and then it sits cold all weekend because I'm not home.

At any rate, the choices are pretty clear. Try something, or just sit back and watch warranty expire on January 15.

-Karl

 

[Evoforce]

Time for some holiday visits driving to see relatives. Also time to use your inverter and Nissan Powerwall to energize some of that equipment in your home. To bad you don't have a second electric car that needs a good charge with your Nissan Powerwall. My GIDs were at 181 when 8 bar. What are your GIDs now. I was plateaued at 183 for a while.

 

[kolmstead]

183.

-Karl

 

[mwalsh]

6/22/13: AHr=54.07 CAP=81.61%. Mileage: 30,455 miles. Lost bar 12.
6/24/13: AHr=54.01 CAP=81.52%
6/25/13: AHr=54.12 CAP=81.68%
7/11/13: AHr=53.16 CAP=80.23%
7/12/13: AHr=53.30 CAP=80.45% Hlth=76.57%
8/26/13: AHr=52.54 CAP=79.30% Hlth=75.16%
9/11/13: AHr=51.49 CAP=78.49% Hlth=73.22%
10/2/13: AHr=51.81 CAP=78.98% Hlth=73.82%. Mileage: 34,507
10/8/13: AHr=51.58 CAP=78.63% Hlth=73.39%. Mileage: 34,813. Lost bar 11.
10/23/13: AHr=52.12 CAP=79.51% Hlth=74.46%. Mileage: 35,220
11/5/13: AHr=52.68 CAP=80.31% Hlth=75.43%. Mileage: 35,723
11/12/13: AHr=52.47 CAP=79.98% Hlth=74.80%. Mileage: 36,071
11/22/13: AHr=52.74 CAP=80.40% Hlth=75.53%. Mileage: 36,445
11/25/13: AHr=52.89 CAP=80.63% Hlth=75.81%. Mileage: 36,509
12/22/13: AHr=52.74 CAP=80.40% Hlth=75.53%. Mileage: 37,596
1/21/14: AHr=51.38 CAP=78.32% Hlth=73.02%. Mileage: 38,471
2/25/14: AHr=51.37 CAP=78.31% Hlth=73%
3/12/14: AHr=50.75 CAP=77.37% Hlth=71.86%
3/24/14: AHr=51.93 CAP=79.16% Hlth=72.36%. Mileage: 40,228
4/17/14: AHr=50.81 CAP=77.46% Hlth=71.97%. Mileage: 41,232
5/5/14: AHr=48.64 CAP=74.15% Hlth=67.96%. Mileage: 41,754
5/21/14: AHr=48.10 CAP=73.33% Hlth=66.97%. Mileage: 42,485
6/24/14: AHr=48.50 CAP=73.93% Hlth=67.69%. Mileage: 43,277
7/21/14: AHr=47.68 CAP=72.69% Hlth=66.19%. Mileage: 44,316
7/25/14: AHr=47.17 CAP=71.9% Hlth=65.24%. Mileage: 44,564. Lost bar 10.
8/21/14: AHr=46.26 CAP=70.82% Hlth=63.82%. Mileage: 45,695
9/21/14: AHr=44.84 CAP=68.35% Hlth=61.66%. Mileage: 46,271
10/21/14: AHr=45.59 CAP=69.50% Hlth=62.80%. Mileage: 47,253
11/20/14: AHr=46.24 CAP=70.49% Hlth=63.79%. Mileage: 48,207
12/21/14: AHr=45.87 CAP=69.92% Hlth=63.22%. Mileage: 49,086
1/19/15: AHr=45.32 CAP=69.08% Hlth=62.38%. Mileage: 49,743.
1/20/15: AHr=52.34 CAP=79.78% Hlth=62.17%. Mileage: 49,765. P3227
5/7/15: AHr=45.32 CAP=69.08% Hlth=48.24%. Mileage: 52,901 P3227+107 days
5/26/15: AHr=45.20 CAP=68.90% Hlth=48.03%. Mileage: 53,480
6/4/15: AHr=45.15 CAP=68.82% Hlth=47.94%. Mileage: 53,737
6/10/15: AHr=45.07 CAP=68.70% Hlth=47.81%. Mileage: 53,860
6/12/15: AHr=44.96 CAP=68.54% Hlth=47.64%. Mileage: 53,983
6/17/15: AHr=44.88 CAP=68.42% Hlth=47.51%. Mileage: 54,047
6/18/15: AHr=44.81 CAP=68.31% Hlth=47.40%. Mileage: 54,118
6/19/15: AHr=44.77 CAP=68.25% Hlth=47.33%. Mileage: 54,179
6/25/15: AHr=44.64 CAP=68.05% Hlth=47.12%. Mileage: 54,212
7/12/15: AHr=44.34 CAP=67.59% Hlth=46.62%. Mileage: 54,305
7/16/15: AHr=44.19 CAP=67.37% Hlth=46.38%. Mileage: 54,348
7/19/15: AHr=44.04 CAP=67.14% Hlth=46.14%. Mileage: 54,370
7/21/15: AHr=44.00 CAP=67.08% Hlth=46.07%. Mileage: 54,431
7/28/15: AHr=43.94 CAP=66.98% Hlth=45.96%. Mileage: 54,462
8/3/15: AHr=44.04 CAP=67.13% Hlth=45.77%. Mileage: 54,498
8/11/15: AHr=43.70 CAP=66.61% Hlth=45.57%. Mileage: 54,523
8/17/15: AHr=43.65 CAP=66.54% Hlth=45.49%. Mileage: 54,596
8/19/15: AHr=43.50 CAP=66.31% Hlth=45.24%. Mileage: 54,634
8/21/15; AHr=43.44 CAP=66.22% Hlth=45.15%. Mileage: 54,662
8/24/15: AHr=43.40 CAP=66.16% Hlth=45.08%. Mileage: 54,682
8/27/15: AHr=43.32 CAP=66.03% Hlth=44.94%. Mileage: 54,720
9/1/15: AHr=43.20 CAP=65.86% Hlth=44.76%. Mileage: 54,743
9/4/15: AHr=43.14 CAP=65.76% Hlth=44.65%. Mileage: 54,758
9/9/15: AHr=43.09 CAP=65.68% Hlth=44.57%. Mileage: 54,838
9/10/15: AHr=42.99 CAP=65.53% Hlth=44.41%. Mileage: 54,868
9/14/15: AHr=42.92 CAP=65.43% Hlth=44.30%. Mileage: 54,909
9/16/15: AHr=42.89 CAP=65.38% Hlth=44.24%. Mileage: 54,943
9/17/15: AHr=43.03 CAP=65.60% Hlth=44.21%. Mileage: 54,974
9/20/15: AHr=42.87 CAP=65.35% Hlth=44.21%. Mileage: 55,009 *43.58AHr reported at conclusion of charging
9/24/15: AHr=42.90 CAP=65.37% Hlth=44.24%. Mileage: 55,055 *43.28AHr reported at conclusion of charging
9/28/15: AHr=42.81 CAP=65.26% Hlth=44.11%. Mileage: 55,116
10/01/15: AHr=42.81 CAP=65.26% Hlth=44.11%. Mileage: 55,195
10/02/15: AHr=42.82 CAP=65.28% Hlth=44.14%. Mileage: 55,229
10/10/15: AHr=42.77 CAP=65.20% Hlth=44.05%. Mileage: 55,370
10/12/15: AHr=43.00 CAP=65.55% Hlth=44.08%. Mileage: 55,458
10/14/15: AHr=42.74 CAP=65.16% Hlth=44.01%. Mileage: 55,483
10/15/15: AHr=42.97 CAP=65.50% Hlth=44.03%. Mileage: 55,547
10/17/15: AHr=42.76 CAP=65.19% Hlth=44.04%. Mileage: 55,609
10/19/15: AHr=42.74 CAP=65.16% Hlth=44.01%. Mileage: 55,697
10/20/15: AHr=42.76 CAP=65.71% Hlth=44.01%. Mileage: 55,728. Lost bar 9. *43.11AHr reported at conclusion of charging
10/25/15: AHr=42.64 CAP=65.00% Hlth=43.83%. Mileage: 55,802
11/01/15: AHr=42.53 CAP=64.84% Hlth=43.66%. Mileage: 55,885
11/09/15: AHr=42.44 CAP=64%* Hlth=43.50%. Mileage: 56.017 *reading from LEAFSpy Pro - only shows Hx to 2 digits.
11/22/15: AHr=42.36 CAP=64.57% Hlth=43.37%. Mileage: 56,162
12/2/15: AHr=42.29 CAP=64.46% Hlth=43.25%. Mileage: 56,228
12/16/15: AHr=42.09 CAP=64.16% Hlth=42.93%. Mileage: 56,402

One last time before I turn the old pack in:

12/28/15: AHr=42.14 CAP=64.24% Hlth=43.02%. Mileage: 56,575

Wishing those of you who aren't there yet all the luck in the world!

 

[DaveEV]

7/25/14: AHr=47.17 CAP=71.9% Hlth=65.24%. Mileage: 44,564. Lost bar 10.
...
10/20/15: AHr=42.76 CAP=65.71% Hlth=44.01%. Mileage: 55,728. Lost bar 9. *43.11AHr reported at conclusion of charging

Wishing those of you who aren't there yet all the luck in the world!

Looks basically impossible for me to hit that if it took you 10k miles and 15 months to lose the 4th bar - I'm right at 47.0 Ah and 51.0% Hx right now and have 6.5 months to go.

 

[knightmb]

I finally got a chance to screen-shot my LeafSpy data, didn't know where else to put it with so many topics, but I know someone, somewhere is collecting all of this data.

2013 Nissan Leaf SV
Manufactured 6/28/2013
First Owner - 9/15/2013 (79 Miles)
27K Miles

 

[TimLee]

... Can't do it just by driving. I'm working, so the car only goes 18 miles to work (through very cold air), then sits outside all day and goes 18 miles home while sun is setting. Not enough battery left by then (already below LBW) to do much additional driving. So the battery is cold, and then it sits cold all weekend because I'm not home.
...

The air flow past the pack is pretty effective at keeping the battery temperature within about 10F of ambient temperature.

With cold ambients the pack will not heat up much even if you drive it at 93 mph for a half hour.

Only way you and many of us will win the capacity warranty lottery is to heat the garage.

You might check the thread on EVSE tester that someone built with moderate cost garage heaters.

 

[mwalsh]

^ Karl has only 3 or 4 days left. Still got my fingers crossed for him, but I'm beginning to think it'll take nothing less than a miracle for it to happen inside the warranty period.

 

[kolmstead]

Yes.. looks hopeless. With nothing to lose, I did let it set uncharged after HV contactor opened Friday night. It had recovered by the time I got back tonight, so I ran it down again to contactor disconnect using heater. But I'm out of ideas. It has finally dropped below 183 GIDs at full charge; I saw a 182 and two 181s last week. Too late. Out of warranty Friday. I could take the week off and put two 40 mile runs per day on the car, but I tried eight days of that over Christmas and battery stats actually improved.

We tried!

-Karl