Don't plug in or you'll get arrested!

[ericsf]

"I asked him why his vehicle was plugged into the power at the school. He told me that was an excepted [sic] practice and that I was making to [sic] much of it. I asked him if he has [sic] asked the Dekalb County school system if he could take the power. He told me that I did not ask if my patrol car can dirty the air -- did you? He says 'No you did not'."

Thanks for pulling this out. This part doesn't make me think much better of this person. If this is the true answer he gave to the question "Did you ask for permission", this confirms to me that he's one of those EV drivers who think they are entltled to special priviledges because their car doesn't burn gasoline. That kind of attitude doesn't help the EV cause. Most people don't drive EVs because they can't - not because they don't want to. "I'm superior because I drive an EV"... really ?

An again, I disagree on the fact that an outlet in a public space can be used for whatever you want. I made my case in a previous post.

 

[ksnogas2112]

Wonder if it's a coincidence that the police arrest him at a time where bail could not be set until the next day? Sounds like a case of who is the most macho. The Leaf owner instead of being appropriately apologetic lips off instead, the police respond by arresting him on a technically correct but trivial criminal complaint at the worst possible time.

Since the arresting officers/department weren't from the department that filed the warrant, the who's macho and coincidence factor become immaterial unless you're going to reach for conspiracy between the departments. As for the 'bail could not be set until next day', I can't judge (pardon pun) another department's policy but it's possible that bail was set, he didn't want to pay the full amount (which is returned in full at court appearance) and couldn't get a bondsman until the next day.

Again just to re-iterate, I don't support the arrest but the place for this to be taken care of is in the courts not in the media. There are policies and laws there for public protection.

 

[thankyouOB]

x

 

[ksnogas2112]

<edit> A power outlet in a public place generally implies consent for its use - it is there so you can use it. If they school didn't want it to be used by the public they should have put a sign saying "For authorized use only" or locked it up. If I go to a city park pavilion and use an outlet for my crock pot should I be arrested for theft? There is implied consent that a publicly available outlet on public property is there for the use of the public.

I beg to provide a different opinion but again every experience is different and mine may not apply. At the parks around here the only outlets are at the shelters. Shelters are "supposed" to be reserved and are available for a nominal fee($25-$50 depending on size). This fee covers the maintenance and power. If you plug in a <insert device> no one would probably say anything but it is also possible the power wouldn't be on since it wasn't reserved. It is likely that you would be asked to vacate if a reserved party arrives. Failure to do so would be a violation of (in our case) county ordinances. Again there is no "implied" consent in my opinion.


Completely unrelated side note but directed at earlier posts about "stealing my money to pay for public schools"...there have been multiple studies across many different cities and years that demonstrate a strong correlation between education and crime. The better educated a populace is the less crime is in that same area. So I would propose that taxes used to fund public education are in fact partially responsible for crime prevention. This is open to debate in a different thread but just food for thought.

 

[Ozarks]

"I asked him why his vehicle was plugged into the power at the school. He told me that was an excepted [sic] practice and that I was making to [sic] much of it. I asked him if he has [sic] asked the Dekalb County school system if he could take the power. He told me that I did not ask if my patrol car can dirty the air -- did you? He says 'No you did not'."

Thanks for pulling this out. This part doesn't make me think much better of this person. If this is the true answer he gave to the question "Did you ask for permission", this confirms to me that he's one of those EV drivers who think they are entltled to special priviledges because their car doesn't burn gasoline. That kind of attitude doesn't help the EV cause. Most people don't drive EVs because they can't - not because they don't want to. "I'm superior because I drive an EV"... really ?

An again, I disagree on the fact that an outlet in a public space can be used for whatever you want. I made my case in a previous post.

Thanks Ericsf. The news also reported that the owner saw someone in his car and then walked over to find a policeman rummaging around in it. When he asked, "What are you doing in my car" he said that the policeman didn't seem interested in answering his question, and later the policeman asserted that the car had been abandoned in a public space. Add this to the police saying they had "no way" of finding out whose car it was without entering it (umm, don't they have a system for looking up license plates?) and I can see how the driver would be annoyed. And, from my perspective, if everyone wants to just meekly submit to police rummaging through their cars without probable cause, perhaps we should just go back to being subjects of England.

 

[Ozarks]

<edit> A power outlet in a public place generally implies consent for its use - it is there so you can use it. If they school didn't want it to be used by the public they should have put a sign saying "For authorized use only" or locked it up. If I go to a city park pavilion and use an outlet for my crock pot should I be arrested for theft? There is implied consent that a publicly available outlet on public property is there for the use of the public.

I beg to provide a different opinion but again every experience is different and mine may not apply. At the parks around here the only outlets are at the shelters. Shelters are "supposed" to be reserved and are available for a nominal fee($25-$50 depending on size). This fee covers the maintenance and power. If you plug in a <insert device> no one would probably say anything but it is also possible the power wouldn't be on since it wasn't reserved. It is likely that you would be asked to vacate if a reserved party arrives. Failure to do so would be a violation of (in our case) county ordinances. Again there is no "implied" consent in my opinion.


Completely unrelated side note but directed at earlier posts about "stealing my money to pay for public schools"...there have been multiple studies across many different cities and years that demonstrate a strong correlation between education and crime. The better educated a populace is the less crime is in that same area. So I would propose that taxes used to fund public education are in fact partially responsible for crime prevention. This is open to debate in a different thread but just food for thought.

Here the pavilions are open, but if you have a reservation (no fee) you can boot anyone out who might be there. Cutting the power is an appropriate way to limit access. So if the school didn't want to imply consent they could have locked the outlet, put up a sign, or turned the power off.

I've heard that there have been successful claims of implied consent when, for example, someone leaves their keys in a car. The use of the car was considered to be implied because it was left available. While I wouldn't generally see that as the case myself, I see no problem with going to a pavilion in the park and using the publicly available and freely offered outlet for whatever reasonable use I desire while I am there. That includes heating my casserole or charging my car. It doesn't mean that I'm going to camp out there for a week and run my space heater to keep my tent toasty, but I will strongly disagree with anyone accusing me of "theft", unless they are going to charge all crockpot users with theft as well.

The one thing that really yanks my chain is bullying, and that is what I'm seeing here.

 

[ksnogas2112]

Add this to the police saying they had "no way" of finding out whose car it was without entering it (umm, don't they have a system for looking up license plates?) and I can see how the driver would be annoyed. And, from my perspective, if everyone wants to just meekly submit to police rummaging through their cars without probable cause, perhaps we should just go back to being subjects of England.

1. Running tags only gets you a name not a picture. They're only cops not the NSA. Also tags only get you the registered owner not the driver. Running the tags on my son's car gets you me not my son. So they would completely over look the 18 yoa kid while looking for the dumpy old guy. Hence the review of the contents of the car. It might not reveal anything but it might include an ipod with a name, a phone with contact information, car insurance with the driver information because that can be different than the owner, credit card receipt with a name....

2. Probable cause is only required for an arrest. Investigation only requires 'reasonable suspicion'. And before anyone goes 4th amendment (unreasonable search and seizure) see my previous post about cars and mobility.

Probable cause - a crime has been committed and with the information at hand at that time of the arrest, the officer reasonably believes based on his/her experience and knowledge of the law that the suspect committed the crime.

Reasonable suspicion - investigation of a potential crime in which the officer based on his/her experience and training believe a crime MIGHT be in progress -- aka someone else thought something was hokey enough to call the cops

BTW, if any of the guys on the forum are criminal lawyers I would be more than willing to update any data I've posted. The academy and street work were more than several years ago.

Again, not saying the cops did the right thing, just pointing out other data.

 

[smkettner]

I agree that an outlet in a loading dock is not intended for public consumption. He should be parked in the regular parking area. If there was an outlet in the general parking area I would say go for it but stop immediately if there was any indication it was not acceptable.

 

[ksnogas2112]

The one thing that really yanks my chain is bullying, and that is what I'm seeing here.

Totally agree, but since none of us were there we don't know who was the bully. We know that the suspect was arrested and we know the different sides of the story but we don't KNOW what really happened. Ultimately there are only two people who know and both have vested interests in their side of the story.

Suspect - he's the suspect and a suspect always has a story and sometimes the story is true and sometimes it isn't
Cop - while he's supposed to be above reproach he's also human and good people make mistakes and bad people abuse power and sometimes you just have a bad day.

 

[Ozarks]

Add this to the police saying they had "no way" of finding out whose car it was without entering it (umm, don't they have a system for looking up license plates?) and I can see how the driver would be annoyed. And, from my perspective, if everyone wants to just meekly submit to police rummaging through their cars without probable cause, perhaps we should just go back to being subjects of England.

1. Running tags only gets you a name not a picture. They're only cops not the NSA. Also tags only get you the registered owner not the driver. Running the tags on my son's car gets you me not my son. So they would completely over look the 18 yoa kid while looking for the dumpy old guy. Hence the review of the contents of the car. It might not reveal anything but it might include an ipod with a name, a phone with contact information, car insurance with the driver information because that can be different than the owner, credit card receipt with a name....

2. Probable cause is only required for an arrest. Investigation only requires 'reasonable suspicion'. And before anyone goes 4th amendment (unreasonable search and seizure) see my previous post about cars and mobility.

Probable cause - a crime has been committed and with the information at hand at that time of the arrest, the officer reasonably believes based on his/her experience and knowledge of the law that the suspect committed the crime.

Reasonable suspicion - investigation of a potential crime in which the officer based on his/her experience and training believe a crime MIGHT be in progress -- aka someone else thought something was hokey enough to call the cops

BTW, if any of the guys on the forum are criminal lawyers I would be more than willing to update any data I've posted. The academy and street work were more than several years ago.

Again, not saying the cops did the right thing, just pointing out other data.

One source said the car was parked 35 feet from the tennis courts. What's to prevent the policeman from saying "Hey, does this car belong to any of you?" It is not like hardened criminals hang out at the tennis court on Saturday morning. No, he has to start rummaging through it, I would guess in search of something illegal so he can seize the car. And then making ridiculous assertions, like the car was "abandoned" and then lying on a warrant saying that the "theft" was $10 to $25, and afterwards supporting the lying by saying that they had "no way to know" how much electricity was "stolen". And then the chief of police saying "theft is theft" to justify the whole fiasco. These are just bad cops, and if I were a citizen of Chamblee I'd try to get them removed because of the waste of public funds.

 

[UBUYGAS]

http://www.WarCharging.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; is wrong!!! - Get permission and pay for your electricity!

Don't be an EV JERK like Kamooooneh!!

 

[EVDRIVER]

Sounds like the guy needs to watch the South Park "Smug" episode. Perhaps he should have bought a "Hindsight" hybrid instead.

 

[kubel]

Like this LEAF owner, you believe that anything which is in reach, unlocked, unmarked, etc... can be taken or used by anyone as they see fit... You're making me feel very naive right now. I'm not sure how I'd deal with you if you were using my frontyard hose to wash your car.

I think you're under the impression that anarchists desire to burn cities, steal, rape, etc... Anarchy doesn't mean without rules, it means without rulers. Every anarchist I know adheres to the non-aggression principle (meaning they are against the initiation of force). That confuses a lot of people, because immediately when people think of anarchists, they think of hooligans and violent youth, hell bent on destruction, theft, and general chaos- but that simply isn't the case.

Theft would be an initiation of force. So would trespassing. If you, an uninvited stranger, decided to help yourself to my garden hose to wash off your car without my permission, I might take issue with that, since your acts would constitute aggression against me and my property.

It's very different when we are talking about common property. Anyone is permitted to use common property, so long as the use of the property is reasonable. I don't think plugging in a car is unreasonable use of common property.

Others may disagree- which is why common property cannot exist without clearly defined rules. It's confusing when, without any established rules stating one way or the other, you go to the library and outlets are considered free to use, but when you go to the tennis court, outlets are off limits- even though both are common property, open to the general public. To complicate matters, we introduce the elements of a system of violence and theft (government) to the mix. He's forced to pay, under threat of violence, for the very electricity that he was accused of stealing.

So it's not just an issue of common property, it's also an issue of this confusing sense of forced entitlement due to this system of theft that we call taxation. In a free society, if there was common property, it wouldn't be funded through theft, so there wouldn't be this same sense of entitlement. The people that freely decide to contribute to the common property would presumably agree to establish clearly defined rules (remember, anarchy doesn't mean without rules, it means without rulers). Anyone who doesn't like the rules is free to suggest alternative rules, or can stop funding the common property altogether (and therefor not be entitled to its use).

Under the current system of socialism, taxpayers are not given the option to simply opt-out, and the direct responsibility of the establishment of rules by those who contribute (whether they want to or not) is obfuscated by "representatives" and bureaucrats. Taxpayers are forced to pay for and subscribe to these services and aren't even given a direct voice in the implementation of the rules, and who have no ability to opt-out if they don't like the rules established. Or in this case, the lack of rules established! There was no sign saying "ELECTRICITY OUTLET FOR SCHOOL MAINTENANCE USE ONLY", just like there was no sign allowing the use of the library outlet saying "YOU MAY USE THIS LIBRARY OUTLET FOR CHARGING CELL PHONES AND LAPTOPS".

 

[greengate]

Failure to use gasoline marks you as a bit of a subversive in our car culture. During one of my first public charging sessions an elderly lady became quite angry when she learned it was temporarily free. There are always folks who feel they must energetically protect the dominant paradigm.

Plus1!!

Wherever a ray of light is shown, the darkness appears. It's automatic and will continue to be this way until the ray of light, (electric cars,) is received as a good thing…by the 100th monkey, so to speak.

We have a way to go, being at perhaps the 10th monkey, or am I being overly optimistic?

Checkout "The Nissan Autobarn Evanston, Il" on Facebook and you will see one way to move from the 10th to the 11th monkey. I don't work for them by the way!!

 

[UBUYGAS]

I'll be worried when we get to the 12th monkey!!!

http://m.imdb.com/title/tt0114746/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[safari]

I don't really get it. Capitol City Nissan is literally 1/2 mile away from the 'scene of the crime'. Dude could have charged there for free (much more quickly btw) and walked 10 minutes to the tennis courts at Chamblee Middle School. Nice little warmup/down around his tennis practice. Or just stop by Cap City on his way in/out if he really needed a charge. Have a cup of coffee and look at some other model cars for a few minutes. .

But then, I also don't get who called the police. Seriously. Leaf guy is wrong, but unless it's been otherwise posted or previously warned, somebody out there is a busy body and a hater. Good lesson/reminder for those who might otherwise feel it's ok to plug in wherever they desire.

Overzealous cop too. The whole thing seems like an a$$hole competition and the Leaf guy lost (or won??).

 

[greengate]

I'll be worried when we get to the 12th monkey!!!

http://m.imdb.com/title/tt0114746/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tried to self educate myself by going to Netflix, but it is not there..so without further guidance..for now I am left in the cloud of unknowing about the 12th monkey film!!

 

[XeonPony]

good film I highely recomend it, warning: You'll need to watch it at least 10 times or more as it is a complex little film for it to make any sense

 

[greengate]

good film I highely recomend it, warning: You'll need to watch it at least 10 times or more as it is a complex little film for it to make any sense

Not quite what I had in mind!!

And if I were to watch it 10 times, the last 4 I would have to be in a straight jacket..although must admit, if we don't see CO2 emitting tail pipes as a thing of the past, sooner rather than later, that's how we will be living in the world.

 

[donald]

if we don't see CO2 emitting tail pipes as a thing of the past, sooner rather than later, that's how we will be living in the world.

Where will all the electricity be coming from? Last I looked, the only country with a serious alternative mix of electrical generation without fossil fuel dependency was France with 85% nuclear electricity.

At 550 g of CO2 per kWh in the US, if you are getting 60 mile range from 21kWh of charge then that's equivalent to an ICE emitting 115 g/km CO2. Most small petrol and diesel cars in Europe can now emit less than this.

An end to tail-pipe emissions can only happen with electricity generation not dependent on burning fossil fuels. Some may be lucky to be able to install PV, but not enough to imagine that ICE cars can be done away with as a thing of the past, any time soon. Even if electricity generation does become less dependent on fossil fuel, in general an EV owner still needs their own private residence with driveway where they can do their overnight charging.

For penetration into the market of people in apartments, tower blocks, etc., there would need power sockets galore everywhere to cater for everyone to have an EV, and not forgetting a right to plug in wherever you find one.